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Thread: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    Transmission losses on the power grid are about 7%.

    We've been producing and distributing electrical power longer then there have been Ford's on the road so I'm not sure what you mean by understanding it better.


    I'm have no idea what else you might be trying to say here.
    I thought it was a lot higher than 7%? Does it vary depending on the area? I recall my electrician saying that losses, or "waste" is around 20%? Maybes that's CT specific, due to the outdated crap we use?


    Yes, we have been producing and distributing the stuff for a long time...but when was the last time we've had any major improvements in distribution, post Tesla?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Besides, seems like the simple solution that I didn't even think about till a little while ago was, simply making charge up stations stand alone power producers.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    I thought it was a lot higher than 7%? Does it vary depending on the area? I recall my electrician saying that losses, or "waste" is around 20%? Maybes that's CT specific, due to the outdated crap we use?

    Yes, we have been producing and distributing the stuff for a long time...but when was the last time we've had any major improvements in distribution, post Tesla?
    Slightly less than 7% is the US average but I'd think it's pretty consistent since all the "sub-grids" are interconnected and use the same, basic method of transmission.

    Electric power transmission - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    You must be confusing me with someone else...I have not once stated fuel economy figures for hybrid or electric cars.
    Okay that was someone else. Apologies.

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Now, take the current demand for electricity in the US, and triple it. 60%, or something close to it, of all oil in the US is used for our cars. Try to convert that amount of energy into electricity. Don't you see the problem?
    Actually, that number is off. Check these REALLY BIG numbers below (I apologize for mis-matching years, it's what I got on short notice.)

    36.6kWh = 1 gal gas
    Gasoline - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    Gallons of Gas used in 2010
    2010 - 3,297,528,000 barrels x 42 = 138,496,176,000 gallons (that's 138 Billion gallons of gas!)
    2010 Gasoline Consumption | American Fuels

    Electricity used in the US 2011
    Electricity - U.S. Energy Information Administration (EIA)
    3,856 billion Kilowatthours (kWh) -- that's 3,856,000,000,000 kWh or 3.856 Trillion kWh used in infrastructure in 2011

    36.6 X 138,496,176,000 gallons = 5,068,960,041,600 or 5.068 Trillion kWh used in cars in 2010

    So that's not quite double the current US demand for electricity. You claimed triple. Still, the numbers are pretty scary. But we're still not done yet. ICE cars only use a small percent of the energy they consume.
    Typically, conventional gasoline engines effectively use only 15% of the fuel energy content to move the vehicle or to power accessories, and diesel engines can reach on-board efficiencies of 20%, while electric drive vehicles have on-board efficiency of around 80%.
    Electric car - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    So, 5,068,960,041,600 kWh (energy used by ICE cars) X 0.15 = 760,344,006,240 kWh or 760.3 Billion kWh actually moved all the ICE cars around in 2010.

    If all those ICE cars were electric (and electric cars get a whopping 80% efficiency at the wheels) then we get the following:
    (this calc may not be the best math so someone correct me if I'm wrong). Since electrics have 80% efficiency, I need more than 760.3 Billion kWh, so 760,344,006,240 X 0.20 = 152,068,801,248.
    I add these together to give me 20% more to account for energy lost. So 760,344,006,240 + 152,068,801,248 = 912,412,807,488 or 912.4 Billion kWh.

    So what percent of 2011 demand for electricity do I need?
    912.4 Billion kWh / 3,856 billion Kilowatthours = 23%

    I need 23% more electricity if suddenly tomorrow ALL cars and trucks were suddenly electric. I wouldn't need triple the current electricity, I'd need about 1/4 more.

    Granted, that's still a lot of electricity, but as you can see the total amount of energy we would need would be far less.

    Actually, it's even lower. I'm directly comparing 36.6kWh = 1 gal gas. But the distance traveled is not equal. The Nissan Leaf needs 34kWh to go 100miles. The Volt needs 37kWh to go 100 miles. If I have an ICE car that gets 40 mpg (VERY efficient for ICE) I need 2.5 galllons to get 100 miles. That equals (2.5 X 36.6) 91.5 kWh. So I need almost three times the energy in an ICE car (a very efficient one) to go the same distance in an EV!
    Miles per gallon gasoline equivalent - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
    Last edited by EagleAye; 08-24-12 at 01:40 AM.
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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Some were made with Ford Windsors. 351s.
    I have never heard of a Delorean having anything but the Renault engine.

    The Pantera had the Ford 351 but I don't think the Delorean had it. I don't even think there is room for the V8.

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Mine had AC? I bought it used, however...did they not come from the factory with AC?
    If you are talking about the Honda HX, it was sold as a stripped car. If it had AC it was dealer installed, or after the initial sale.

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    I have never heard of a Delorean having anything but the Renault engine.

    The Pantera had the Ford 351 but I don't think the Delorean had it. I don't even think there is room for the V8.
    I think you're right, there isn't room for the V-8, at least not without some major modifications. I mean, you can shoe-horn a V-8 into a Vega, too, but it's not easy.
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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I think you're right, there isn't room for the V-8, at least not without some major modifications. I mean, you can shoe-horn a V-8 into a Vega, too, but it's not easy.
    I looked it up on google and all I found was V( Conversion.

    Even though Delorean was responsible for the GTO, which means big engine samll car, he never fooled around with anything bigger than the Renault engine in his car.

    Don't you remember the movie Back To The Future? How many times did the car die on Marty when he needed it the most? That is Renault for you.

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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by Mason66 View Post
    I looked it up on google and all I found was V( Conversion.

    Even though Delorean was responsible for the GTO, which means big engine samll car, he never fooled around with anything bigger than the Renault engine in his car.

    Don't you remember the movie Back To The Future? How many times did the car die on Marty when he needed it the most? That is Renault for you.
    I wouldn't call the GTO, which was based on the Tempest/LeMans line, small but it wasn't a Bonneville, either, just a mid-size for that time. Of course, that's as big or bigger than most 4-dr sport sedans today. My, how things have changed since the Muscle Cars!

    You're right about the original engines. I did a little digging and they were not the best engines by far.
    And I love BTTF!
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    Re: Automaker Fisker recalls some 2,400 Karmas for cooling fan issue

    Quote Originally Posted by MoSurveyor View Post
    I wouldn't call the GTO, which was based on the Tempest/LeMans line, small but it wasn't a Bonneville, either, just a mid-size for that time. Of course, that's as big or bigger than most 4-dr sport sedans today. My, how things have changed since the Muscle Cars!

    You're right about the original engines. I did a little digging and they were not the best engines by far.
    And I love BTTF!
    You are right the word small is relative but there was no other car smaller inther Pontiac line at that time, 1964.

    They never would have thought the people would be driving around in the little things that are available now.

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