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Thread: US buys more Saudi Oil

  1. #21
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    Re: US buys more Saudi Oil

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    The US also exports around 8-12 million barrels per day. Why do you think that is?
    I'm seeing 3.19 million per day in total petroleum products (including gasoline and distilled oil products), in this source.
    U.S. Exports of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products

    Would you supply your source?
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    Re: US buys more Saudi Oil

    Quote Originally Posted by Helix

    are you arguing that if we kept it all, we'd be energy independent?
    I'm arguing that the US is "dependent" on the global economy for oil as well as everything else and that it is impossible to not be. Not even the DPRK is "independent". The argument of "energy independence" is as silly as the argument about balancing the budget.

    the fact remains that unless you believe in abiotic oil, we're going to run out of it at some point.
    Oil reserves are larger than the peak oil crowd claims, and the situation is most definitely not dire but I do support developing cleaner and more sustainable forms of energy. However, this will most likely not happen even with the government pushing for it.

    I'm seeing 3.19 million per day in total petroleum products (including gasoline and distilled oil products), in this source.
    U.S. Exports of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products

    Would you supply your source?
    Found it on the same site somewhere. I can look it up later.
    "I do not claim that every incident in the history of empire can be explained in directly economic terms. Economic interests are filtered through a political process, policies are implemented by a complex state apparatus, and the whole system generates its own momentum."

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    Re: US buys more Saudi Oil

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Oil reserves are larger than the peak oil crowd claims, and the situation is most definitely not dire but I do support developing cleaner and more sustainable forms of energy. However, this will most likely not happen even with the government pushing for it.
    It MUST happen eventually. The oil cannot last forever, so we have to have an alternative at some point in time. When that time will be is the subject of much debate. For me, I would argue that the time to begin is now, because it will decades to update from an oil infrastructure. Instead of waiting for the 11th hour (which will be entirely too late) when the oil runs dry or it becomes so expensive it's no longer economically feasible (most likely scenario), we should prepare in advance and update our infrastructure. It's like two guys standing on a railroad track and watching an approaching train. They choose to argue about when it will arrive, rather than just stepping off the bloody tracks!
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    Re: US buys more Saudi Oil

    Quote Originally Posted by Khayembii Communique View Post
    Oil reserves are larger than the peak oil crowd claims, and the situation is most definitely not dire but I do support developing cleaner and more sustainable forms of energy. However, this will most likely not happen even with the government pushing for it.

    even if they are larger, how much larger? how many years? and, most importantly, how many years after large numbers of the Chinese and Indian populations start buying Buicks?

    we really need to plan for this, because we simply can't afford not to.

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    Re: US buys more Saudi Oil

    Quote Originally Posted by EagleAye View Post
    I'm seeing 3.19 million per day in total petroleum products (including gasoline and distilled oil products), in this source.
    U.S. Exports of Crude Oil and Petroleum Products

    Would you supply your source?
    Yeah, there is no way. The peak exporters are Saudi Arabia and Russia which can put out around 7-12 mmbd and 7-9 mmbd respectively. I think we are something like 1.8mmbd.

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    Re: US buys more Saudi Oil

    A bit of history: Two major tribes were at war and the desolate stretch of land where oil was first discovered in SA (by an American oil company) was the agreed upon DMZ. The oil companies were handing out cash waterfalls to whomever would say they owned the land and would sign an agreement. One of the leaders of the warring tribes decided to claim the DMZ, broke the treaty and won the war taking the territory. This, after more war and expansion became the House of Saud, nearly 100% financed by oil contracts with the West.

    So, it was oil companies, looking to contract for the extraction of resources, that funded the rise of Saudi Arabia.

    As for oil imports here in the US. As mentioned we have the refineries, but not only that, we have the different types of refining capacity that no one else has. We can refine heavy crude to light sweet (most of the world's other refineries can do only light sweet). We're one of the only ones who can do heavy crude - that's why we're so important to Venezuela and why they established Citgo here.

    We are in the business of refining oil and distributing the products to the world. We make a ton of money doing that. However, the problem is twofold:
    1) we now have some competition and supply is dwindling (not rapidly, but still).
    2) we've allowed the oil companies and the suppliers to structure and control the market. Of course they do this with profit being the ultimate consideration. This has also had the effect of discouraging our legislators from taking the proper cut from the sales for use by the people of the US.

    Globalization has had the effect of taking the control of the oil market even farther from our grasp.
    Last edited by clownboy; 08-18-12 at 04:25 PM.

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    Re: US buys more Saudi Oil

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    A bit of history: Two major tribes were at war and the desolate stretch of land where oil was first discovered in SA (by an American oil company) was the agreed upon DMZ. The oil companies were handing out cash waterfalls to whomever would say they owned the land and would sign an agreement. One of the leaders of the warring tribes decided to claim the DMZ, broke the treaty and won the war taking the territory. This, after more war and expansion became the House of Saud, nearly 100% financed by oil contracts with the West.

    So, it was oil companies, looking to contract for the extraction of resources, that funded the rise of Saudi Arabia.

    As for oil imports here in the US. As mentioned we have the refineries, but not only that, we have the different types of refining capacity that no one else has. We can refine heavy crude to light sweet (most of the world's other refineries can do only light sweet). We're one of the only ones who can do heavy crude - that's why we're so important to Venezuela and why they established Citgo here.

    We are in the business of refining oil and distributing the products to the world. We make a ton of money doing that. However, the problem is twofold:
    1) we now have some competition and supply is dwindling (not rapidly, but still).
    2) we've allowed the oil companies and the suppliers to structure and control the market. Of course they do this with profit being the ultimate consideration. This has also had the effect of discouraging our legislators from taking the proper cut from the sales for use by the people of the US.

    Globalization has had the effect of taking the control of the oil market even farther from our grasp.
    That isn't how that happened. The al-Saud and the Rashidi which is what it seems like you are talking about were enemies dating back to the 17th Century and the incarnation of the 1st Saudi State. There was constant internecine warfare and tribal raids until the 3rd and final Saudi State was founded by Abdulaziz after recrossing from Kuwait and reclaiming territory around Riyadh. The forces under al-Saud defeated the Rashidi, and then later moved and annexed al-Hasa which is the area that is today known as the Eastern Province. This was completed by around 1912 or 1913 depending on how you term the conquest completed. This formed the bulk of the Saudi state until the al-Saud backed by their religious Ikhwan militia stormed the Hijaz and toppled Hashemite rule. This more or less completed Saudi unification, except for some fighting in the Southwest that led Saudi Arabia to acquire Najran and Asir from Yemen. King Abdulaziz's coffers were mostly fueled by pilgrimage revenue, local tithes, banditry, and of course the British subsidy which was implemented to buy Saudi tribal complicity and regional security.

    This process ended in 1932. The first oil exploration licenses were granted in 1932 and 1933, and the first real Saudi wells were discovered in 1938.

  8. #28
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    Re: US buys more Saudi Oil

    Right from the wiki:

    The Kingdom of Saudi Arabia was founded by Abdul-Aziz bin Saud (known for most of his career as Ibn Saud) in 1932, although the conquests which eventually led to the creation of the Kingdom began in 1902 when he captured Riyadh, the ancestral home of his family, the House of Saud, referred to in Arabic as Al Saud.
    The first 'Saudi State' established in 1744 in the area around Riyadh, rapidly expanded and briefly controlled most of the present-day territory of Saudi Arabia,[26] but was destroyed by 1818 by the Ottoman viceroy of Egypt, Mohammed Ali Pasha.[27] A much smaller second ‘Saudi state’, located mainly in Nejd, was established in 1824. Throughout the rest of the 19th century, the Al Saud contested control of the interior of what was to become Saudi Arabia with another Arabian ruling family, the Al Rashid. By 1891, the Al Rashid were victorious and the Al Saud were driven into exile.[19
    In 1902, Abdul-Aziz bin Saud, leader of the House of Saud, had seized Riyadh in Nejd from the Al Rashid – the first of a series of conquests ultimately leading to the creation of the modern state of Saudi Arabia in 1932.[19] The main weapon for achieving these conquests was the Ikhwan, the Wahhabist-Bedouin tribal army led by Sultan ibn Bijad and Faisal Al-Dawish.[33] From the Saudi core in Nejd, and aided by the collapse of the Ottoman Empire after World War I, the Ikhwan had completed the conquest of the territory that was to become Saudi Arabia by the end of 1925.[34] On 10 January 1926 Abdul-Aziz declared himself King of the Hejaz and, then, on 27 January 1927 he took the title of King of Nejd (his previous title having been 'Sultan').[19] After the conquest of the Hejaz, the Ikhwan leaders wanted to continue the expansion of the Wahhabist realm into the British protectorates of Transjordan, Iraq and Kuwait, and began raiding those territories. Abdul-Aziz, however, refused to agree to this, recognizing the danger of a direct conflict with the British. The Ikhwan therefore revolted but were defeated in the Battle of Sabilla in 1930, where the Ikhwan leadership were massacred.[35]

    In 1932, the two kingdoms of the Hejaz and Nejd were united as the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia.[19]

  9. #29
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    Re: US buys more Saudi Oil

    Quote Originally Posted by clownboy View Post
    Right from the wiki:
    Right, and I'm not sure where you're getting the oil company DMZ thing. Saudi unification occurred before the discovery of oil in the Arabian Peninsula. It was not spurred on by Western oil companies. Actually your link is more or less exactly what I said.

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    Re: US buys more Saudi Oil

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Right, and I'm not sure where you're getting the oil company DMZ thing. Saudi unification occurred before the discovery of oil in the Arabian Peninsula. It was not spurred on by Western oil companies. Actually your link is more or less exactly what I said.
    The unification happened the same time as oil was first discovered (by SoCal - Standard Oil of California), 1932. That began a year long negotiation for contract, SoCal got preference and beat out the other competitors, chief among them the Iraq Petroleum Company.

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