• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

'Legally innocent' inmates ordered freed in N.C.

danarhea

danarhea

Slayer of the DP Newsbot
DP Veteran
Joined
Aug 27, 2005
Messages
43,602
Reaction score
26,256
Location
Houston, TX
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Conservative
Federal courts in North Carolina have ordered the government to release prison inmates who federal prosecutors have agreed are "legally innocent" but said should remain locked up nonetheless.Among the first to have his conviction thrown out was Terrell McCullum, who was featured in a USA TODAY investigation in June that identified more than 60 inmates who were imprisoned for violating federal gun possession laws, even though courts have since determined that it was not a federal crime for them to have a gun.
Click to expand...

These cases have been controversial, but the fact is that, if a crime has not been committed, then people shouldn't be in jail. In many of these cases, it is not a crime to own a gun, and as an advocate for the Second Amendment, I think this was the right decision.

Article is here.
 
danarhea said:
These cases have been controversial, but the fact is that, if a crime has not been committed, then people shouldn't be in jail. In many of these cases, it is not a crime to own a gun, and as an advocate for the Second Amendment, I think this was the right decision.

Article is here.
Click to expand...

I cannot imagine any argument where these men should be in prison.
 
One more strike against the right wing demonization of ex-cons.
 
Hatuey said:
One more strike against the right wing demonization of ex-cons.
Click to expand...

Uh, no. Actually it was a failure of the Department of Justice. The DOJ did nothing to identify these men, and its attorneys argued they should be kept in prison regardless. From the link you didn't read through:

The investigation found the U.S. Justice Department had done little to identify the men, and that its lawyers had urged courts to keep them in prison even though they conceded that they had not committed a federal crime. Justice said this week that it had ordered its lawyers to abandon that position. The investigation found that many of them don't even know they're innocent.
Click to expand...
 
MaggieD said:
Uh, no. Actually it was a failure of the Department of Justice. The DOJ did nothing to identify these men, and its attorneys argued they should be kept in prison regardless. From the link you didn't read through:
Click to expand...

Uh yes, the right wing in the US has demonized ex-cons to the point where entire laws have been crafted against making sure they never again incorporate into our society. The DOJ is doing what the right wing in this country has made into law.
 
Hatuey said:
Uh yes, the right wing in the US has demonized ex-cons to the point where entire laws have been crafted against making sure they never again incorporate into our society. The DOJ is doing what the right wing in this country has made into law.
Click to expand...

Something besides your flapping fingers. Like a link?

I agree with you that the system persecutes ex-cons. There's no doubt about it. What I doubt is that it is completely the fault of the right wing. And, then, of course, there's the fact that Obama had his very own personal Congress for two years. I wonder what he did to right those wrongs? Nothing? Oh.
 
WTF? How is that even remotely controversial? For what reason do they want to keep innocent people in prison?
 
You mean fair-minded Eric let this happen?

MaggieD said:
Uh, no. Actually it was a failure of the Department of Justice. The DOJ did nothing to identify these men, and its attorneys argued they should be kept in prison regardless. From the link you didn't read through:
Click to expand...

Hopefully Eric will get to be bubba's cell mate. A fella can dream can't he?

A L
 
MaggieD said:
Something besides your flapping fingers. Like a link?

I agree with you that the system persecutes ex-cons. There's no doubt about it. What I doubt is that it is completely the fault of the right wing. And, then, of course, there's the fact that Obama had his very own personal Congress for two years. I wonder what he did to right those wrongs? Nothing? Oh.
Click to expand...

War on Drugs - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

The War on Drugs is a campaign of prohibition and foreign military aid and military intervention undertaken by the United States government, with the assistance of participating countries, and the stated aim to define and reduce the illegal drug trade.[5][6] This initiative includes a set of drug policies of the United States that are intended to discourage the production, distribution, and consumption of illegal psychoactive drugs. The term "War on Drugs" was first used by President Richard Nixon in 1971.[7][8][9][10]
Click to expand...
 
How can they not know they are innocent?
That said, it's not just drugs that are filling your prisons unnecessarily. I'm watching Bait Car, and a three-time loser is about to go to jail forever for car theft.
 
If they didn't commit a crime, they should not be in prison. DOH! I think the players in the system get so caught up in playing the game that they forget such a simple truth. It's not about getting a high conviction rate and hence a promotion and hence a bonus and hence the right guy re-elected. It's about justice.
 
Last edited:
muciti said:
I cannot imagine any argument where these men should be in prison.
Click to expand...


Except, we don't really know all the details of every inmate that's been released.
 
Kandahar said:
WTF? How is that even remotely controversial? For what reason do they want to keep innocent people in prison?
Click to expand...

To put money in the pockets of the private corporations that run our prisons.

Scary isn't it?
 
Your Star said:
To put money in the pockets of the private corporations that run our prisons.

Scary isn't it?
Click to expand...

Hmmm ... I used to teach at the DE joint in Smyrna, DE. It was not run by a 'private corporation'. Seems that your comment is a "faulty generalization".

A L
 
apdst said:
Except, we don't really know all the details of every inmate that's been released.
Click to expand...

We have the only detail necessary. They are innocent of the crime they were put in prison for.
 
apdst said:
That's what you've been told, so it must be true. Right?
Click to expand...

I stick with the fact that they have not committed the crime. Innocent till proven guilty. The prosecution admits they are innocent. They deserve massive compensation.
 
Being "legally innocent" means they're walking on a technicality, not that they didn't commit a crime.
 
This is an older article, but don't think anything has really changed.

Interviews - Eric Schlosser | Busted - America's War On Marijuana | FRONTLINE | PBS

Nelson Rockefeller, governor of NY, decided to get tough on drugs and lock people up for up to life for possession, including for marijuana (4 ounces). Some unfortunate souls were caught up in this.

Rockefeller Drug Laws - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Our legal system is not always about justice, but about advocacy. Our DA was known to give bonuses for convictions, resulting in over-prosecutions, which, of course, were much harder on those without the resource to defend themselves. She went after an 11-year old boy, who after playing with matches, managed to start a fire which caused damage to his family's home. The not only sought an arson conviction, but wanted $100,000 of restitution for the insurance company (she wanted the family to pay back the insurance company).
It was dropped when the local press went after her, but she is notorious for over-prosecution and won't let go without conviction.

William L. Anderson: Carol Chambers, Once Again
Jacob Christenson, age 11, facing arson trial in Parker over fire that "just happened" - Denver - News - The Latest Word

A local attorney, when discussing this particular DA, was quoted as saying "A Conservative is a Liberal who has been mugged; a Liberal is a Conservative who has been arrested"

Fundamental point: There are a lot of people serving time that should not be there. Many have been over-prosecuted and/or under represented.
 
Last edited:
apdst said:
Being "legally innocent" means they're walking on a technicality, not that they didn't commit a crime.
Click to expand...

That's irrelevant. They're innocent in the eyes of the law, and therefore the legal system has no basis for keeping them imprisoned.
 
Kandahar said:
That's irrelevant. They're innocent in the eyes of the law, and therefore the legal system has no basis for keeping them imprisoned.
Click to expand...
Granted, but I was correcting the notion that these people didn't commit a crime.

It's too bad there will never be a report on how many of them re-offend.
 
apdst said:
Granted, but I was correcting the notion that these people didn't commit a crime.

It's too bad there will never be a report on how many of them re-offend.
Click to expand...

it is not re-offend if you were never guilty in the first place.

I would imagine one of the reasons these people end up sitting in jail is they do not have the money for a real lawyer and end up with a public defender. I am quite sure if they ever do commit a crime and get caught in the future they will have a nice settlement from the state to pay for their lawyer. Eventually it becomes a point to keep these people in jail because the government screwed up. releasing them admits to liability and that will be turned into a lawsuit by a lawyer working for a cut. In the end it is a huge waste of our tax money to have done this. first you consider years of imprisonment and the costs of that, and now we get to pay for the mistakes of the government.

i would also like to point out that the people mentioned have been in jail for long periods of time and many were not placed there by the Obama administration. The laws that allow this, and the policies that make it happen seem to have been made pre-obama so blaming him and holder for causing this is not proper. I don't know who made this policy, but blaming Obama and co. for not checking out every single federal inmate is a little much considering how many of them there are, and the mountains of case records there are.
 
Kandahar said:
WTF? How is that even remotely controversial? For what reason do they want to keep innocent people in prison?
Click to expand...

"The wheels of justice turn slowly". There are thousands of rape convictions awaitng retrial based on DNA testing that was not availble at the date of conviction.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom