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Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigrants

Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

There are no American workers willing to fill this gap.

Another talking point lie. I know tons of people that do exactly the same type of work as illegals. Day in, day out. Every spring, summer and fall and depending on the work even in the middle of winter.

See, Idaho doesn't have much illegal immigration (there is some but comparitively speaking not much). Yet we have farms a plenty, (we ARE noted for our potatoes after all), lots of tree farm work, logging, hops, construction etc etc going on here and 99% of the people that does this work are American citizens.
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

That is nothing more than pro-illegal fear mongering.Prices will not double or triple just because farmers had to start paying hones wages.


Local News | Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices | Seattle Times Newspaper

More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.
You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.
The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.
The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.
Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.
At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.
And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 ½ hours for an acre of wheat.
The labor-intensive nature of many crops is a key reason agriculture continues to rely on illegal workers. A report by Jeffrey Passel, a demographer at the Pew Hispanic Center who has long studied immigration trends, estimates that 247,000 illegal immigrants were employed as "miscellaneous agricultural workers" last year — only 3.4 percent of the nation's 7.2 million illegal workers, according to Pew statistics, but 29 percent of all workers in that job category.
Eliminating illegal farmworkers, by shrinking the pool of available labor, likely would raise wages for those who remain. Philip Martin, a professor of agricultural economics at the University of California, Davis, noted that two years after the old bracero program ended in 1964, the United Farm Workers union won a 40 percent increase for grape harvesters.
A decade ago, two Iowa State University agricultural economists estimated that removing all illegal farmworkers would raise wages for seasonal farmworkers by 30 percent in the first couple of years, and 15 percent in the medium term.
But supermarket prices of summer-fall fruits and vegetables, they concluded, would rise by just 6 percent in the short run — dropping to 3 percent over time, as imports took up some of the slack and some farmers mechanized their operations or shifted out of labor-intensive crops. (Winter-spring produce would be even less affected, they found, because so much already is imported.)

Well if we don't see any change in price for subverting our labor laws, then screw it, owners can pay fair labor prices and we'll just employ Americans at these jobs.
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

They told people it was only 1.3 million illegals that would be granted amnesty,just like Obama's back door amnesty 800,000 is the number they said that would be qualified for it.But the reality is was nearly 3 million illegals that got Ragean Amnesty and it will be more than double that will get Obama's back door amnesty because illegals do not have to prove they were brought here as kids.

A Reagan Legacy: Amnesty For Illegal Immigrants : NPR
The law granted amnesty to nearly 3 million illegal immigrants, yet was largely considered unsuccessful because the strict sanctions on employers were stripped out of the bill for passage


This is why it is a lie when pro-illegals try to claim fruits and veggies will double or triple in price if farmers are forced to pay their workers a honest wage and why I am against outsourcing.



That is a lie.

Michelle Malkin » Kill the Bill: What’s going on behind closed doors?
U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote

You and I agree Sir :)
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

Not all republicans and democrats support illegal immigration.This is why the Bush/Kennedy/McCain amnesty plan failed the last time.

That is fine. I'm just pointing out the BS the right tries to use to against illegal immigration. That is why I don't believe a word Republicans say about it. Personally, I don't care that they are here making a life for themselves.
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

Another talking point lie. I know tons of people that do exactly the same type of work as illegals. Day in, day out. Every spring, summer and fall and depending on the work even in the middle of winter.

See, Idaho doesn't have much illegal immigration (there is some but comparitively speaking not much). Yet we have farms a plenty, (we ARE noted for our potatoes after all), lots of tree farm work, logging, hops, construction etc etc going on here and 99% of the people that does this work are American citizens.


Southern NJ has alot of americans pick crops too.....Heres the problem...its not that americans WONT PICK CROPS...they wont pick crops for minimum wage or below...the rich guys dont like that....they dont even think there should be a minimum wage...they should pay 50cts an hour...Oh wait they do in china...smirk
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

That is fine. I'm just pointing out the BS the right tries to use to against illegal immigration. That is why I don't believe a word Republicans say about it. Personally, I don't care that they are here making a life for themselves.

Illegal immigration is not a left vs right issue.Just because there are some disloyal unpatriotic republicans who toss the salad of illegals and the scum that hire them doesn't mean every republican is a hypocrite for speaking out against illegal immigration when Obama is trying to push a backdoor amnesty.
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

Southern NJ has alot of americans pick crops too.....Heres the problem...its not that americans WONT PICK CROPS...they wont pick crops for minimum wage or below...the rich guys dont like that....they dont even think there should be a minimum wage...they should pay 50cts an hour...Oh wait they do in china...smirk

THey wish they got 50 cents an hour.They make 23-37½cents an hour and have to work 80 hours a week.

washingtonpost.com: Chinese Workers Pay for Wal-Mart's Low Prices
Most of the 2,100 workers here are poor migrants from the countryside who have come to this industrial hub in southern China for jobs that pay about $120 a month.

snip..
Li said these factories often require employees to work as many as 80 hours per week during the busy season for $75 to $110 per month,
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

Well if we don't see any change in price for subverting our labor laws, then screw it, owners can pay fair labor prices and we'll just employ Americans at these jobs.

I don't believe prices should be an issue in whether or not enforce anti-illegal immigration laws.
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

I don't believe prices should be an issue in whether or not enforce anti-illegal immigration laws.

As true as that is, I think people do play it into their consideration and/or arguments.
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

THey wish they got 50 cents an hour.They make 23-37½cents an hour and have to work 80 hours a week.

washingtonpost.com: Chinese Workers Pay for Wal-Mart's Low Prices
Most of the 2,100 workers here are poor migrants from the countryside who have come to this industrial hub in southern China for jobs that pay about $120 a month.

snip..
Li said these factories often require employees to work as many as 80 hours per week during the busy season for $75 to $110 per month,


You dont understand...Our corporations are doing it for humanitarian reasons..to uplift the poor chinese....they know the middleclass here makes to o m uch and has to much...and its all medicares fault anyway...
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

A lot of these illegals make a fortune in construction Most of them pay no taxes, collect government benifits, steal american worker's tools, do shoddy work until it catches up with them [then they move to a new place] , are mexican nationalists [cinco de mayo], and send most of their money back to mexico.

I am talking from experience working among them.
 
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Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

Another talking point lie. I know tons of people that do exactly the same type of work as illegals. Day in, day out. Every spring, summer and fall and depending on the work even in the middle of winter.

See, Idaho doesn't have much illegal immigration (there is some but comparitively speaking not much). Yet we have farms a plenty, (we ARE noted for our potatoes after all), lots of tree farm work, logging, hops, construction etc etc going on here and 99% of the people that does this work are American citizens.

Idaho crops are machine crops. Operation of logging trucks and machines requires training and license--it's year round labor.

You're the second person to mention construction -- that's union labor, with specialized jobs - carpentry, plumbing, electricians etc. Maybe low end demo jobs and painting-- but I think you mean residential landscaping.

Just for the record, I don't think it's right that any business big or small get a pass on hiring undocumented workers. I believe the states should head up that end of the illegal immigrant problem, policing their own businesses--making sure every business is following the law. Let the federal government deal with boarder patrol and deportation.

Arizona is not a an big agriculture state (relative to California), so I'm not sure what draws undocumented workers to Phoenix.
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

Arizona is not a an big agriculture state (relative to California), so I'm not sure what draws undocumented workers to Phoenix.


Laziness. They get across the border there and are too lazy to go any further. Once they are in they know they can get coddled anywhere.
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

Southern NJ has alot of americans pick crops too.....Heres the problem...its not that americans WONT PICK CROPS...they wont pick crops for minimum wage or below...the rich guys dont like that....they dont even think there should be a minimum wage...they should pay 50cts an hour...Oh wait they do in china...smirk

Now THIS is true. American's won't do the jobs that illegals do as it pertains to the wage. But thats it. And of course American's won't. And neither would illegals given half a chance.
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

Nah just strip the economic incentive. That will help a lot. But what republican is willing to do that? None.

While a part of the solution, not nearly the panacea you suggest. They still comes because their families will be educated for free, treated in hospitals, fed, housed and in an environment where they have opportunity to achieve rather than the war zone they've made of their host country (or at very least allowed to become that).

And there are a whole lot of republicans who would do what you suggest - in fact they have done what you suggest and passed laws going after businesses that hire illegals (the dems oppose such measures every time). The problem is in enforcement. The law is not enforced but for vanity raids (politicians showing us they're doing something).
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

Now THIS is true. American's won't do the jobs that illegals do as it pertains to the wage. But thats it. And of course American's won't. And neither would illegals given half a chance.

Only a rich guy or a far right person...could possibly believe that an american should bust their ass out in the fields in the heat for hours on end for a wage that cant even pay rent in a decent apt.....thats all thats wrong with the greed thing going on....they want everyone to work for peanuts so they can put more in their own pocket...That is GREED and so many that have squat support them lol...I shake my head
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

Idaho crops are machine crops. Operation of logging trucks and machines requires training and license--it's year round labor.

There are lots of crops here that are not just machine crops. For instance there are no machines used when sorting the potatoes. There are no machines to pick up straw and hay bales. No tree farm here uses machines to tie up the branches on the spruce trees. As for logging, no, you don't need a years experiance to start on such a job, you'll just start out running choke chains.

You're the second person to mention construction -- that's union labor, with specialized jobs - carpentry, plumbing, electricians etc. Maybe low end demo jobs and painting-- but I think you mean residential landscaping.

Depends on the cosntruction...and the state. Idaho is a right to work state so unions here are not represented too much. And when building a 1 or 2 story house all that a basic worker really needs to know is how to swing a hammer or pull the trigger on a nail gun or cut a straight line and measure. The boss man is the one that needs the degree's and such. I know because I helped build a house from foundation on up. No education on my part. Just swung the hammer lots and picked up trash and dug a ditch from the well pump to the house.

But thanks for reminding me about the landscaping. You're right that illegals love to try and get that job.

Just for the record, I don't think it's right that any business big or small get a pass on hiring undocumented workers. I believe the states should head up that end of the illegal immigrant problem, policing their own businesses--making sure every business is following the law. Let the federal government deal with boarder patrol and deportation.

I agree. Originally the Feds were just suppose to handle things that concerned the borders. They have long since gone beyond that. It was also one of the reasons that I supported 1070b.

Arizona is not a an big agriculture state (relative to California), so I'm not sure what draws undocumented workers to Phoenix.

From what I have heard...and don't quote me on the accuracy here...but its mainly construction and landscapping that goes on there.
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

Every piece of meat, every piece of fruit, every vegetable would double in price.

And California wines would triple.
Oinkonomics 101. But in the real world, the prices would be the same and the profits for traitors hiring cheap peon labor would go down to the level they were at back when farmowners were loyal Americans.
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

Only a rich guy or a far right person...could possibly believe that an american should bust their ass out in the fields in the heat for hours on end for a wage that cant even pay rent in a decent apt.....thats all thats wrong with the greed thing going on....they want everyone to work for peanuts so they can put more in their own pocket...That is GREED and so many that have squat support them lol...I shake my head

Maybe you should drop the "far right guy" act and be more inclusive in your criticisms.
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

A lot of these illegals make a fortune in construction Most of them pay no taxes, collect government benifits, steal american worker's tools, do shoddy work until it catches up with them [then they move to a new place] , are mexican nationalists [cinco de mayo], and send most of their money back to mexico.

I am talking from experience working among them.

Don't blame them. People do what's in their best interest.

So I shouldn't be blamed for trying to stop them, cause it's in my best interest.
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

You source and the 'retired' economists quoted don't account for several present day 2012 labor realities. If California agriculture had to deal with unionized labor and keep a workforce employed beyond the picking season + workers comp, insurance. The nature of the farming relies on seasonal migrant labor--people willing to do backbreaking work for short periods and then leave. There are no American workers willing to fill this gap.

If Texas slaughter houses had to deal with unions... workers comp, insurance, health insurance. As you can see, your article falls short of the realities of running a business legally.

How exactly are grape farmers going to 'shift out of labor-intensive crops'. Growing Grapes for wine involves cultivating a grape over decades--soil, climate, etc. California wineries can't just decide to grow corn (machine based crop)

I realize I'm not debating you at this point, I'm showing you the problems with your source. -- A lot has changed in labor law and practices since 1964-- your source doesn't account for this.


NOOOOOooooooo, wait





In one thing I concur with the abolitionists; that if emancipation is to be brought about, it is better that it should be immediate and total. But let us suppose it to be brought about in any manner, and then inquire what would be the effects.

The first and most obvious effect, would be to put an end to the cultivation of our great Southern staple. And this would be equally the result, if we suppose the emancipated negroes to be in no way distinguished from the free labourers of other countries, and that their labor would b equally effective. . . Imagine an extensive rice or cotton plantation cultivated by free laborers, who might perhaps strike for an increase of wages, at a season when the neglect of a few days would insure the destruction of the whole crop. Even if it were possible to procure laborers at all, what planter would venture to carry on his operations under such circumstances? I need hardly say that these staples cannot be produced to any extent where the proprietor of the soil cultivates it with his own hands. He can do little more than produce the necessary food for himself and his family.

And what would be the effect of putting an end to the cultivation of these staples, and thus annihilating, at a blow, two-thirds or three-fourths of our foreign commerce? Can any sane mind contemplate such a result without terror? I speak not of the utter poverty and misery to which we ourselves would be reduced, and the desolation which would overspread our own portion of the country. Our slavery has not only given existence to millions of slaves within our own territories, it has given the means of subsistence, and therefore, existence, to millions of freemen in our confederate States; enabling them to send forth their swarms to overspread the plains and forests of the West, and appear as the harbingers of civilization. The products of the industry of those States are in general similar to those of the civilized world, and are little demanded in their markets. By exchanging them for ours, which are everywhere sought for, the people of these States are enabled to acquire all the products of art and industry, all that contributes to convenience or luxury, or gratifies the taste of the intellect, which the rest of the world can supply. Not only on our own continent, but on the other, it has given existence to hundreds of thousands, and the means of comfortable subsistence to millions. A distinguished citizen of our own Stat, than whom none can be better qualified to form an opinion, has lately stated that our great staple, cotton, has contributed more than anything else of later times to the progress of civilization. By enabling the poor to obtain cheap and becoming clothing, it has inspired a taste for comfort, the first stimulus to civilization. Does not self-defense, then, demand of us steadily to resist the abrogation of that which is productive of so much good? It is more than self-defense. IT is to defend millions of human beings, who are far removed from us, from the intensest suffering, if not from being struck out of existence. It is the defense of human civilization.

Examples of 19th Century Pro-Slavery Arguments at the Lyceum
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

Maybe you should drop the "far right guy" act and be more inclusive in your criticisms.


Im an equal opportunity critic...but I apply far right and left when I believe its appropriate...I have no problem bashing either/or matt
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

The best way to get rid of illegals, after all, is to just kill them.
Alabama's experience shows that a state can eliminate nearly all of them just by punishing businesses who hire them.
 
Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

Maybe. I'm gonna go with Arizona being forced to adhere to the law and I'm going to go with Interstate Commerce as being the excuse. It has no rational place being there, but man do the courts love that one.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness.
That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed,
That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government,[/quote]

We keep getting closer and closer to a need to alter or abolish what we have today.​
 
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