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Thread: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigrants

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    Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

    Quote Originally Posted by Vallista View Post
    personally I don't care if illegals come here. I just hate when conservatives want to have both ways. Once any liberal mentions curbing the economic incentives, Republicans are nowhere to be seen. That is the problem I have with them. They want to cheap labor, but don't want them to start a life here. I mean come on.

    Reagan gave 1.3 million Illegal immigrants total amnesty...not only did he do NOTHING to stop the invasion of our borders...he encouraged it with his amnestly program and yes it was cheap labor...that ONLY BENEFITED THE RICH.....does Air Jordans cost any less because they are made in China ?? NO THEY DONT...theres just alot more profit ....Does the Price of a Vegetable go down at the supermarket because an illegal picks it for 5 bucks an hour with no benefits and big corporate farms have to pay no unemployment or worker compensation for...HELL NO its just more profit.

    The GOP is full of chit on illegal immigration and always has been. GWBush wanted amnesty for 12 million Illegal immigrants and the entire GOP was pushing it for him....
    Then GOpers during campaigns especially out west and in rural areas...Bemoan the democrats and illegal immigration...lol...Ive been watching this ruse being played out for decades nothing new

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    Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Every piece of meat, every piece of fruit, every vegetable would double in price.

    And California wines would triple.
    That is nothing more than pro-illegal fear mongering.Prices will not double or triple just because farmers had to start paying hones wages.


    Local News | Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices | Seattle Times Newspaper

    More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.
    You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices call it the "illegal-worker discount" is surprisingly small.
    The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.
    The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born represents only a sliver of the retail price.
    Consider those apples Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.
    At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.
    And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 hours for an acre of wheat.
    The labor-intensive nature of many crops is a key reason agriculture continues to rely on illegal workers. A report by Jeffrey Passel, a demographer at the Pew Hispanic Center who has long studied immigration trends, estimates that 247,000 illegal immigrants were employed as "miscellaneous agricultural workers" last year only 3.4 percent of the nation's 7.2 million illegal workers, according to Pew statistics, but 29 percent of all workers in that job category.
    Eliminating illegal farmworkers, by shrinking the pool of available labor, likely would raise wages for those who remain. Philip Martin, a professor of agricultural economics at the University of California, Davis, noted that two years after the old bracero program ended in 1964, the United Farm Workers union won a 40 percent increase for grape harvesters.
    A decade ago, two Iowa State University agricultural economists estimated that removing all illegal farmworkers would raise wages for seasonal farmworkers by 30 percent in the first couple of years, and 15 percent in the medium term.
    But supermarket prices of summer-fall fruits and vegetables, they concluded, would rise by just 6 percent in the short run dropping to 3 percent over time, as imports took up some of the slack and some farmers mechanized their operations or shifted out of labor-intensive crops. (Winter-spring produce would be even less affected, they found, because so much already is imported.)
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

    Can we please remember they are Illegals. Get a work permit with an I.D. and picture on it. If you want to drive, legally, create a second type of lisence with I.D. that states, not a citizen, but past the proper testing for safe driving, this shows they are following our laws. If they want proper paperwork illegals will go to the trouble. Otherwise show them the boarder door. This doesn't sound compassionate, but there is no money in each states plan. We pay taxes...they do not. Until they become citizens who do, they have to comply with the wishes that be.

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    Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

    Quote Originally Posted by Margie View Post
    Can we please remember they are Illegals. Get a work permit with an I.D. and picture on it. If you want to drive, legally, create a second type of lisence with I.D. that states, not a citizen, but past the proper testing for safe driving, this shows they are following our laws. If they want proper paperwork illegals will go to the trouble. Otherwise show them the boarder door. This doesn't sound compassionate, but there is no money in each states plan. We pay taxes...they do not. Until they become citizens who do, they have to comply with the wishes that be.
    Nah just strip the economic incentive. That will help a lot. But what republican is willing to do that? None.

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    Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    That is nothing more than pro-illegal fear mongering.Prices will not double or triple just because farmers had to start paying hones wages.


    Local News | Low-paid illegal work force has little impact on prices | Seattle Times Newspaper

    More than 7 million illegal immigrants work in the United States. They build houses, pick crops, slaughter cattle, stitch clothes, mow lawns, clean hotel rooms, cook restaurant meals and wash the dishes that come back.
    You might assume that the plentiful supply of low-wage illegal workers would translate into significantly lower prices for the goods and services they produce. In fact, their impact on consumer prices — call it the "illegal-worker discount" — is surprisingly small.
    The bag of Washington state apples you bought last weekend? Probably a few cents cheaper than it otherwise would have been, economists estimate. That steak dinner at a downtown restaurant? Maybe a buck off. Your new house in Subdivision Estates? Hard to say, but perhaps a few thousand dollars less expensive.
    The underlying reason, economists say, is that for most goods the labor — whether legal or illegal, native- or foreign-born — represents only a sliver of the retail price.
    Consider those apples — Washington's signature contribution to the American food basket.
    At a local QFC, Red Delicious apples go for about 99 cents a pound. Of that, only about 7 cents represents the cost of labor, said Tom Schotzko, a recently retired extension economist at Washington State University. The rest represents the grower's other expenses, warehousing and shipping fees, and the retailer's markup.
    And that's for one of the most labor-intensive crops in the state: It takes 150 to 190 hours of labor to grow and harvest an acre of apples, Schotzko said, compared to four hours for an acre of potatoes and 1 hours for an acre of wheat.
    The labor-intensive nature of many crops is a key reason agriculture continues to rely on illegal workers. A report by Jeffrey Passel, a demographer at the Pew Hispanic Center who has long studied immigration trends, estimates that 247,000 illegal immigrants were employed as "miscellaneous agricultural workers" last year — only 3.4 percent of the nation's 7.2 million illegal workers, according to Pew statistics, but 29 percent of all workers in that job category.
    Eliminating illegal farmworkers, by shrinking the pool of available labor, likely would raise wages for those who remain. Philip Martin, a professor of agricultural economics at the University of California, Davis, noted that two years after the old bracero program ended in 1964, the United Farm Workers union won a 40 percent increase for grape harvesters.
    A decade ago, two Iowa State University agricultural economists estimated that removing all illegal farmworkers would raise wages for seasonal farmworkers by 30 percent in the first couple of years, and 15 percent in the medium term.
    But supermarket prices of summer-fall fruits and vegetables, they concluded, would rise by just 6 percent in the short run — dropping to 3 percent over time, as imports took up some of the slack and some farmers mechanized their operations or shifted out of labor-intensive crops. (Winter-spring produce would be even less affected, they found, because so much already is imported.)
    But honest with the fact no republican in congress or senate wants to talk about strip the economic incentives. Anytime there is a mention about that Republicans go crazy. Since they want the cheap labor.

  6. #46
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    Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

    Quote Originally Posted by lpast View Post
    Reagan gave 1.3 million Illegal immigrants total amnesty.
    They told people it was only 1.3 million illegals that would be granted amnesty,just like Obama's back door amnesty 800,000 is the number they said that would be qualified for it.But the reality is was nearly 3 million illegals that got Ragean Amnesty and it will be more than double that will get Obama's back door amnesty because illegals do not have to prove they were brought here as kids.

    A Reagan Legacy: Amnesty For Illegal Immigrants : NPR
    The law granted amnesty to nearly 3 million illegal immigrants, yet was largely considered unsuccessful because the strict sanctions on employers were stripped out of the bill for passage
    ..not only did he do NOTHING to stop the invasion of our borders...he encouraged it with his amnestly program and yes it was cheap labor...that ONLY BENEFITED THE RICH.....does Air Jordans cost any less because they are made in China ?? NO THEY DONT...theres just alot more profit ....Does the Price of a Vegetable go down at the supermarket because an illegal picks it for 5 bucks an hour with no benefits and big corporate farms have to pay no unemployment or worker compensation for...HELL NO its just more profit.
    This is why it is a lie when pro-illegals try to claim fruits and veggies will double or triple in price if farmers are forced to pay their workers a honest wage and why I am against outsourcing.

    The GOP is full of chit on illegal immigration and always has been. GWBush wanted amnesty for 12 million Illegal immigrants and the entire GOP was pushing it for him....
    That is a lie.

    Michelle Malkin Kill the Bill: What’s going on behind closed doors?
    U.S. Senate: Legislation & Records Home > Votes > Roll Call Vote
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

    Quote Originally Posted by Vallista View Post
    But honest with the fact no republican in congress or senate wants to talk about strip the economic incentives. Anytime there is a mention about that Republicans go crazy. Since they want the cheap labor.
    Not all republicans and democrats support illegal immigration.This is why the Bush/Kennedy/McCain amnesty plan failed the last time.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

    Quote Originally Posted by jamesrage View Post
    That is nothing more than pro-illegal fear mongering.Prices will not double or triple just because farmers had to start paying hones wages.
    You source and the 'retired' economists quoted don't account for several present day 2012 labor realities. If California agriculture had to deal with unionized labor and keep a workforce employed beyond the picking season + workers comp, insurance. The nature of the farming relies on seasonal migrant labor--people willing to do backbreaking work for short periods and then leave. There are no American workers willing to fill this gap.

    If Texas slaughter houses had to deal with unions... workers comp, insurance, health insurance. As you can see, your article falls short of the realities of running a business legally.

    How exactly are grape farmers going to 'shift out of labor-intensive crops'. Growing Grapes for wine involves cultivating a grape over decades--soil, climate, etc. California wineries can't just decide to grow corn (machine based crop)

    I realize I'm not debating you at this point, I'm showing you the problems with your source. -- A lot has changed in labor law and practices since 1964-- your source doesn't account for this.

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    Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    You source and the 'retired' economists quoted don't account for several present day 2012 labor realities. If California agriculture had to deal with unionized labor and keep a workforce employed beyond the picking season + workers comp, insurance. The nature of the farming relies on seasonal migrant labor--people willing to do backbreaking work for short periods and then leave. There are no American workers willing to fill this gap.

    If Texas slaughter houses had to deal with unions... workers comp, insurance, health insurance. As you can see, your article falls short of the realities of running a business legally.

    How exactly are grape farmers going to 'shift out of labor-intensive crops'. Growing Grapes for wine involves cultivating a grape over decades--soil, climate, etc. California wineries can't just decide to grow corn (machine based crop)

    I realize I'm not debating you at this point, I'm showing you the problems with your source. -- A lot has changed in labor law and practices since 1964-- your source doesn't account for this.
    The article is made in 2006.Not much has changed since then,so your points are irrelevant.
    "A nation can survive its fools, and even the ambitious. But it cannot survive treason from within. An enemy at the gates is less formidable, for he is known and carries his banner openly. But the traitor moves amongst those within the gate freely, his sly whispers rustling through all the alleys, heard in the very halls of government itself. For the traitor appears not a traitor; he speaks in accents familiar to his victims, and he wears their face and their arguments, he appeals to the baseness that lies deep in the hearts of all men. He rots the soul of a nation, he works secretly and unknown in the night to undermine the pillars of the city, he infects the body politic so that it can no longer resist. A murder is less to fear"

    Cicero Marcus Tullius

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    Re: Executive order from Governor Jan Brewer blocks IDs, benefits for illegal immigra

    Quote Originally Posted by hazlnut View Post
    Every piece of meat, every piece of fruit, every vegetable would double in price.

    And California wines would triple.
    This has been proven false more times than I care to count.
    I have an answer for everything...you may not like the answer or it may not satisfy your curiosity..but it will still be an answer. ~ Kal'Stang

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