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Thread: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Your report acknowledges that Russia has lost billions on willingly canceled military contracts, and secondly NO WHERE does it mention that Russia or China would respond militarily. Which is entirely the point, because no one is saying they would. No one. Their reaction would be diplomatic and peripheral not militant or economic.
    If China responds militarily, we could drop all of our debt to them, save our (and the western) economy and then they can decide if they want to go nuke. Our debt to them is a much more powerful weapon than anything short of a nuke.

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Sure, and if we are removing moral equivalency from the argument then its fair to say that an Iranian nuclear weapon is inimical to US interests and we should prevent it from coming to pass. Having an Iranian bomb is not a positive thing for the region, or for the US. Nor is it positive for the world as far as the expansion and potential pressures of proliferation.
    We did this to ourselves by making it clear that the only way to keep Americas dick out of your butt is to have a nuke.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    It is conspiratorial. You don't believe that our politicians are in a conspiracy to drive up weapons sales? What are those campaign contributions and lobbyists for then?


    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Apologies. What I meant was that this is about a coordinated air campaign, and Iranian methods of retaliation, but these threads have been replete with references to invasion, which is what I was referring to. My disagreement is that this is part of some desire to drive up arms procurement rates. I think that is unfounded and mildly conspiratorial.

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    We did this to ourselves by making it clear that the only way to keep Americas dick out of your butt is to have a nuke.
    That is the only way to prevent that. But I like America being able to intervene and excercise influence in countries and regions like this, hence why I do not want Iran to acquire a nuclear weapon. I'm not going to be a self-flagellating American and say that I'd prefer an Iranian nuclear weapon because, come on guys America did bad things during the Cold War. We are a liberal democratic power, and have by and large pushed a liberal agenda when possible in the region. We are the best interlocutor and actor you are going to get for the region, and for the world stage. I support the overthrow of autocracies and the steady advance of liberalism and democratic constitutionalism and the Iranian acquisition of a nuclear weapon and the ensuing increase in pressure and regional action they would be able to take is an impediment to that and would cause significant instability in the region and abroad. So no, they cannot have a bomb.

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by specklebang View Post
    It is conspiratorial. You don't believe that our politicians are in a conspiracy to drive up weapons sales? What are those campaign contributions and lobbyists for then?
    No I don't in the least. What are campaign contributions and lobbying for? So that they can get favorable legislation and so that they will look kindly on their product when the time for defense appropriations comes about.

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    We do get to decide what is good for the world as the major Democratic power and leader of a coalition of democratic powers. I don't care what the Iranian government wants or thinks is fair. Their acquisition of a nuclear weapon is harmful and cannot be allowed.
    Funny how our magnanimity is reserved for areas with lots of oil.

    Money is what determines who "needs" democracy and who needs a strong man dictatorship.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Funny how our magnanimity is reserved for areas with lots of oil.

    Money is what determines who "needs" democracy and who needs a strong man dictatorship.
    It isn't, and it shouldn't be. I don't recall their being much oil in Kosovo, Bosnia, Uganda, Somalia, Syria, Haiti, Lebanon etc. yet we have had robust pro-democratic policies in all three of those countries, though I admit the current administration has been incredibly lackluster in taking advantage of these opportunities as they have arisen, and yes we have debased ourselves by refusing to be more aggressive on a variety of issues. Yet we are still the power of democracy promotion, and we still generally pursue a liberal agenda. It is in our moral and strategic interests.

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    Money is what determines who "needs" democracy and who needs a strong man dictatorship.
    Money is a big factor. We cannot just go nation-building willy-nilly and run clean out of cash. A country targetted for liberation having natural resources to pay for modern democratic infrastructure (sanitation, education, etc) has got to be higher on the List than a country that will break the bank to get it into the 20th century.

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    It isn't, and it shouldn't be. I don't recall their being much oil in Kosovo, Bosnia, Uganda, Somalia, Syria, Haiti, Lebanon etc. yet we have had robust pro-democratic policies in all three of those countries, though I admit the current administration has been incredibly lackluster in taking advantage of these opportunities as they have arisen, and yes we have debased ourselves by refusing to be more aggressive on a variety of issues. Yet we are still the power of democracy promotion, and we still generally pursue a liberal agenda. It is in our moral and strategic interests.
    You are aware of our history in regards to Iran, right.

    Modern Iran is a problem of our creation.

    They voted for the wrong guy and we fixed it for 'em.
    Anyone wondering what I'm talking about start here:
    The Psychology of Persuasion

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by What if...? View Post
    You are aware of our history in regards to Iran, right.

    Modern Iran is a problem of our creation.

    They voted for the wrong guy and we fixed it for 'em.
    Yes, I am more than aware. It is also an incredibly leap to jump from the overthrow of Mossadegh to ascribing total US culpability for the actions and incarnation of Iran today. We are not a parent responsible for our forlorn child. We made mistakes, and we have some guilt in the water with regard to our relationship with them. But pushing it further than that obviates Iran's own independence as an actor which I think is silly.

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