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Thread: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Hm, I see a very dangerous trend taking place in this discussion - treating countries like individuals. Iran do this, Israel do this, Syria act like this, Turkey act like that... I feel like I am in the 30's, before WW2... When people involve themselves in such a rhetoric, the chance of getting a new world war increase dramatically.

    Remember, countries are no people!
    It's wrong to generalise them!

    For example, I don't even like my government. Why should I take the responsibility of someone else's decisions and policy?
    In IR countries are treated as actors, it's a central tenant of most theories of international relations.

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    Lol what is this?

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    In IR countries are treated as actors, it's a central tenant of most theories of international relations.
    Yeah, and those IR are written by the same politicians and power junkies that throw the nations in wars. How brilliant!

    Yeah, I know, Germans are Nazis, Russians are drunks and commies, and Americans are stupid? What a BS.

    P.S. Starting WW3 is a piece of cake.

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Yeah, and those IR are written by the same politicians and power junkies that throw the nations in wars. How brilliant!

    Yeah, I know, Germans are Nazis, Russians are drunks and commies, and Americans are stupid? What a BS.

    P.S. Starting WW3 is a piece of cake.
    What? That isn't what I'm saying. I'm saying that from a modular approach to international politics and relations it makes sense to refer to the state as an actor, which is why it is done in almost every brand of IR theory. Varying groups will ascribe valuation to the components that make up the amalgam of the state, but the state itself is the actor as it has interests, power, and objectives with specific individuals and mechanisms that allow those things to occur.

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    OK, so what is the difference between an actor and an individual?

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    OK, so what is the difference between an actor and an individual?
    That one is an individual, and one is a state. I know that sounds trite, but it is essentially the point. We distinguish between non-state actors, state actors, and society at an individual level because they are different units of scale and analysis. Realism for example posits that states as 'actors' are interested primarily in the acquisition and retention of power due to the anarchy of human behavior and consequently of the international system (that is a significant simplification, but it illustrates the point). We talk about states as actors because it is the most useful tool in describing them.

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Well, may be that's why I don't like that rhetoric - it twists reality into ideology. Btw, 'anarchy' does not equal 'chaos', not 'disorder'.

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Canell View Post
    Well, may be that's why I don't like that rhetoric - it twists reality into ideology. Btw, 'anarchy' does not equal 'chaos', not 'disorder'.
    It isn't rhetoric, its technical terminology in every school of IR from Marxist to Realist to Liberal and onwards. Even constructivism acknowledges that there is a state actor, it is just about where you assign emphasis to. As for anarchy, I never said the words chaos or disorder. Anarchy in the international system is an underlying tenant of all realist and liberal schools of international relations, it refers to the notion that the international system has no inherent leadership and natural moves towards an anarchic system made up of the actors (states) involved in that system. With no hierarchical power capable of arbitrating, it is entirely in flux. Realists claim this leads to perpetual competition for the accumulation of power and self-preservation, Liberals claim that artificial international organizations, alliances, treaties, and norms can provide a restraining structure on this anarchy and lead to a more cooperation and stability, Constructivists acknowledge the anarchy but assert that it is a construct and thus can be willed away by proper governance and better democratic states (well some of them say this, it leads into neoconservatism). The point being this is not rhetoric it is academic.

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    It isn't rhetoric, its technical terminology in every school of IR from Marxist to Realist to Liberal and onwards. Even constructivism acknowledges that there is a state actor, it is just about where you assign emphasis to. As for anarchy, I never said the words chaos or disorder. Anarchy in the international system is an underlying tenant of all realist and liberal schools of international relations, it refers to the notion that the international system has no inherent leadership and natural moves towards an anarchic system made up of the actors (states) involved in that system. With no hierarchical power capable of arbitrating, it is entirely in flux. Realists claim this leads to perpetual competition for the accumulation of power and self-preservation, Liberals claim that artificial international organizations, alliances, treaties, and norms can provide a restraining structure on this anarchy and lead to a more cooperation and stability, Constructivists acknowledge the anarchy but assert that it is a construct and thus can be willed away by proper governance and better democratic states (well some of them say this, it leads into neoconservatism). The point being this is not rhetoric it is academic.
    The Best and the Brightest. Halberstam's book showed what that delusion led to. But I think it's more that they achieve their prestige through conformity and ambitious opportunism.
    On the outside, trickling down on the insiders.
    We won't live free until the 1% live in fear.
    Hey, richboys! Imagine the boot of democracy stomping on your faces, forever.

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    Re: Israel Plans Iran Strike; Citizens Say Government Serious [W:52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    How! How! How on EARTH will this bring about World War III!
    because if The communist powers went to war with the United States it is inevitable that countries such as Great Britain, France, India, Japan etc. will become involved because of one perceived threat or another. Besides what do you see as advantageous about getting involved in another conflict, do you work for a private munitions firm? Defense contractor maybe? Not to mention, what has Israel or Iran done for us lately?

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