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Julian Assange will be granted asylum, says official

TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Julian Assange will be granted asylum, says official | World news | guardian.co.uk

Great move for freedom and transparency on Ecuadors part! Now hopefully Assange can find some safe way to get from GB and to Ecuador!
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I'm pretty ambivalent about this. One the one hand, it can be dangerous to leak classified material. On the other hand, if it's not dangerous and it's just stuff that the government wants to hide from its people, I support it being released. This is a rough issue with a lot of grey area and I'm not swayed by either "He's a freedom fighter!" side or the "He's evil. Hang 'em up." side. It's more complicated than that.
 
Wiggen said:
I am highly amused that you're willing to let scumbags like Assange decide which secrets should be revealed and which shouldn't. Unless, of course, your one of those who don't think anything should be secret?

As for the rape charges in Sweden, I think it's interesting how many people now think that rape isn't such a big deal after all.
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I believe most secrets should be revealed. The only exception would be secrets that keep people safe.

I prefer governments to reveal their own secrets, but when they don't I am happy we have people like Aasange to do it for them.
 
Camlon said:
I believe most secrets should be revealed. The only exception would be secrets that keep people safe.

I prefer governments to reveal their own secrets, but when they don't I am happy we have people like Aasange to do it for them.
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So the answer is yes, you'd like Assange to be the guy deciding which secrets are revealed. And apparently with Assange, the answer is all of them. So no, you don't think anything should remain secret - unless Assange says it should.

No thanks. I prefer not to trust the security of my country and the lives of its soldiers and diplomatic personnel to a left wing Australian rapist.
 
Wiggen said:
Well, that's what all the anti-American assclowns say. "we don't hate the country; just the goverment".
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ILLOGICAL. If they only hate the government, they're not anti-American, but rather anti-government, by definition.

Wiggen said:
Can I tell you how happy I am that you like the Grand Canyon and the Mississippi River? It's a bull**** position.
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By definition, the only "****" position must be in uncle sammy's anus.
 
Wiggen said:
So the answer is yes, you'd like Assange to be the guy deciding which secrets are revealed. And apparently with Assange, the answer is all of them. So no, you don't think anything should remain secret - unless Assange says it should.

No thanks. I prefer not to trust the security of my country and the lives of its soldiers and diplomatic personnel to a left wing Australian rapist.
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Tough luck, the rules have already changed. Even if Wikileaks were to close tomorrow, these data dumps for whistle-blowers and secret sources are here to stay. Secure and anonymous leaking is now part of the media landscape in a scale it was obviously never possible before. As fast as world governments encrypt and hide, hackers and whistle-blowers will decode and seek places to release/publish. Wikileaks represent the change in the way we are ruled and the information we are entitled to expect.

Wikileaks are no more the cause of what critics vilify them for, than grey hair is the cause of old age. It's simply natural progression into an internet age, where anonymity and freedom to express yourself is easier than ever.
 
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solletica said:
I love democracy. What does that have to do w/uncle sammy?
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The US government is a democracy - of, by and for the people. It's not a separate entity beyond the citizenry. This artificial division that you have created between the people and the government exists in mideast dictatorships, but not the western liberal world.
 
So you hate the Government but you love the Grand Canyon and the amber waves of grain. Here's a tip for you. In a democracy, we are the government. If you're uncomfortable with that, I'd suggest emigration.
 
Britperspective said:
Tough luck, the rules have already changed. Even if Wikileaks were to close tomorrow, these data dumps for whistle-blowers and secret sources are here to stay. Secure and anonymous leaking is now part of the media landscape in a scale it was obviously never possible before. As fast as world governments encrypt and hide, hackers and whistle-blowers will decode and seek places to release/publish. Wikileaks represent the change in the way we are ruled and the information we are entitled to expect.

Wikileaks are no more the cause of what critics vilify them for, than grey hair is the cause of old age. It's simply natural progression into an internet age, where anonymity and freedom to express yourself is easier than ever.
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Nonsense. You don't get to publish secrets that cost people their lives and then claim 'the internet made me do it'. Screw them.
 
TurtleDude said:
wow you sure got your knickers in a wad

people who compromise the security of our men-including my nephew serving in the special forces in Afghanistan are scum

if killing that scumbag saves American lives, I am all for it especially since his goal was to hurt America and our military
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THere is nothing noble about protecting those in the American military that act illegally

It is good that things like wikileaks now exist to remind those that use the military as an excuse to act illegally that it is becoming harder for them to get away with it.

Only totalitarian states seek to muzzle the media. WHy do you want the USA to be a totalitarian state?
 
Britperspective said:
Tough luck, the rules have already changed. Even if Wikileaks were to close tomorrow, these data dumps for whistle-blowers and secret sources are here to stay. Secure and anonymous leaking is now part of the media landscape in a scale it was obviously never possible before. As fast as world governments encrypt and hide, hackers and whistle-blowers will decode and seek places to release/publish. Wikileaks represent the change in the way we are ruled and the information we are entitled to expect.

Wikileaks are no more the cause of what critics vilify them for, than grey hair is the cause of old age. It's simply natural progression into an internet age, where anonymity and freedom to express yourself is easier than ever.
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Exactly.

Let's hope that the days of dirty trick and secret crimes by governments are coming to an end. Thank you wikileaks
 
Wiggen said:
Nonsense. You don't get to publish secrets that cost people their lives and then claim 'the internet made me do it'. Screw them.
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Nonsense. Governments cannot cost people their lives and then claim 'shhhh...it's a secret'. Screw them
 
solletica said:
ILLOGICAL. If they only hate the government, they're not anti-American, but rather anti-government, by definition.
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What country's government do you like?
 
ecofarm said:
The US government is a democracy - of, by and for the people. It's not a separate entity beyond the citizenry. This artificial division that you have created between the people and the government exists in mideast dictatorships, but not the western liberal world.
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Wrong buddy. The U.S. government is a REPUBLIC. In no way shape or form should we be a 100% democracy because pure democracies are terrible. They allow the majority party to rule over the minority party without exception. We have a Representative Republic where all ideas and parties are supposed to come together for the better of the people. Does that happen now? No, of course not...however, that is what it is supposed to be.

Division between the people and government is well entrenched in our history. The government is supposed to do the will of the people, but that doesn't happen anymore. The government does the will of the SPECIAL INTEREST groups. This fantasy your stating is wrong.

By the way there is nothing more patriotic than standing up against a government that has far stepped out of the bounds set by the Constitution. Our country was built on distrust of the government. It is in the fabric of our history. My government does not always represent me, and I am an American. I do not agree with a lot of what my government does and they do NOT represent my views. Good thing is that I have the freedom to speak out against it.

Open up a history book man...it seems like you are in a whole different idea of what America is supposed to be.
 
AreteCourage said:
Wrong buddy. The U.S. government is a REPUBLIC. In no way shape or form should we be a 100% democracy because pure democracies are terrible. They allow the majority party to rule over the minority party without exception. We have a Representative Republic where all ideas and parties are supposed to come together for the better of the people. Does that happen now? No, of course not...however, that is what it is supposed to be.
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Spare us the Government 101 lesson.

Open up a history book man...it seems like you are in a whole different idea of what America is supposed to be.
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Go to school, dude.
 
ecofarm said:
Spare us the Government 101 lesson.



Go to school, dude.
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Then actually speak the truth about what you are referring to and I wouldn't have to give you a history lesson.


Went to school. Have a degree. I've taken many courses in American History.
 
1 degree? Go back.
 
No, you need it.

Yes, I have multiple degrees from the Limbaugh Institute.
 
Wiggen said:
Nonsense. You don't get to publish secrets that cost people their lives and then claim 'the internet made me do it'. Screw them.
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The publishing of information leaked by US government officials by the press, regardless of whether that leak was itself legal, is 100% legal and Constitutional, as long as the journalist/publisher didn't break the law to obtain the leak. Judith Miller ring a bell? Hello?! :rolleyes:
 
HonestJoe said:
Who is being locked up for an act of journalism? All I see is a fugative being assisted in escaping a lawful extradition request.
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The US government coerced the Swedish government to extradite Assange on bogus charges with the intent of later having him extradited to the US where, thanks to right wing anti-freedom loons, the government arrests journalists for doing their job.
 
solletica said:
The publishing of information leaked by US government officials by the press, regardless of whether that leak was itself legal, is 100% legal and Constitutional, as long as the journalist/publisher didn't break the law to obtain the leak. Judith Miller ring a bell? Hello?! :rolleyes:
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Kinda irrelevant to the accusations of sex crimes isn't it? Or to the charges filed against the man who actualoly stole the information to pass along to Assange?
 
Moderator's Warning:
Aretecourage, Ecofarm, Solletica, knock off the personal stuff.
 
Assange is not staying at the embassy anymore. No one could live in an embassy building for a long time. He's flying to Ecuador in secrecy, compliments of MI6, who were ordered to arrange it because of whatever threat Assange had waiting for the UK government and/or affluent individuals/organizations.

The notion that the UK police is restraining itself from storming the embassy because of treaties is nothing but :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: Regimes like the US/UK never honor treaties if they can easily break it. The fact that it hasn't invaded means Assange's encrypted leaks contains some powerful man's dirty laundry and it's unrealistic to believe he wouldn't use that to also get him flown to Ecuador.

It's also a no-brainer that in the event Assange did make it to Ecuador, he would've pre-negotiated to fly there in secrecy to keep US/UK forces/agents from looking for him there.

C'mon dudes, use some street smarts.
 
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