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Julian Assange will be granted asylum, says official

solletica said:
It's irrelevant. Ecuador has no means to military retaliate against the UK, so the UK has no incentive to respect Ecuadorian sovereignty in the embassy.
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And by doing so, every single UK citizen in Ecuador and allied nations are at risk from arrest.

I doubt every other country's regime would risk the consequences of embassy invasion simply because the UK had a dispute w/Ecuador.
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Then you are ignorant. The Vienna Convention that governs embassies has been almost more sacred than the US constitution. Not even the US, USSR, North Korea and so on would violate the convention because they know, that as soon as they do that, their own diplomats are going to be targets in any country on the planet.

There are 2 situations I know off where a government has violated an embassy.. the US embassy in Tehran by the Iranians (although you can argue this was not the government doing it), and the Chinese embassy in Belgrade by US bombers. You simply do not violate the embassy of a country... it is a big no no. Even during active war between two countries has embassies been protected.

The more credible explanation is that the UK is not invading the embassy because Assange has some powerful counterthreat up his sleeve.
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Nope, the UK made a false threat and Ecuador called them on it and now the UK is back tracking. The Cameron government is looking foolish and they know it.

The US and UK are notorious for routinely violating territorial sovereignty and blatantly ignoring international laws and treaties, so the idea that a treaty would stop an embassy invasion is absurd.
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Now that is horse****. The US nor the UK have rarely violated the Vienna convention. Now the US pisses in general on international treaties thanks to the GOP arrogance, but this convention is one that even the GOP have not yet violated, because they know that every US citizen abroad working at embassies will come one hell of a target if they do. Even Israel wont violate the convention for god sake.
 
Wiggen said:
Well, there is that annoying rape thing in Sweden, but since this scumbag is a leftist hero for embarrassing the United States, you are apparently willing to overlook little things like rape. The hypocrisy of the Far Left has no limits.
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The problem is actually that the Swedish prosecutor is a moron. All she wants is to interview him, but refuses to do that in the UK or via tv link. Most experts say that the case will collapse very quickly because the prosecutor has no case and even the accusers have withdrawn their statements. Also the European arrest warrant has been abused by the Swedish prosecutor because it was never intended to be used in cases where they want to question some one. Sadly the convention is being abused by many countries and that has to stop.

I fully understand the fear of Assange. Sweden is like the UK a known US brownnoser and because it requires both countries to agree in an extradition to the US, the threat is very real. Although if the UK and/or Sweden did agree to extradite him, then they would have to explain how they could extradite him to a country that could use the death penalty against him... in Sweden that could mean the death of the government because Sweden is very much against capital punishment.

The US is also to blame. The rhetoric coming from official and unofficial sources, ranging from murderer, terrorist, to treason (which is idiotic since he aint an American lol), and all those involving the death penalty.. and the US refusing to take that off the table, only makes things highly problematic. There is no doubt that Assange would be rail-roaded in the US, because he has embarrassed not only the left (Obama) but the right (Bush and the GOP) with his leaks. He would also be tortured, just like Manning has been.

Europe should rip up their extradition treaties with the US in my opinion.
 
PeteEU said:
-- Europe should rip up their extradition treaties with the US in my opinion.
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On that, I can agree. Far easier to extradite to the US than from the US, the treaties are pretty one-sided.
 
PeteEU said:
The problem is actually that the Swedish prosecutor is a moron. All she wants is to interview him, but refuses to do that in the UK or via tv link. Most experts say that the case will collapse very quickly because the prosecutor has no case and even the accusers have withdrawn their statements. Also the European arrest warrant has been abused by the Swedish prosecutor because it was never intended to be used in cases where they want to question some one. Sadly the convention is being abused by many countries and that has to stop.

I fully understand the fear of Assange. Sweden is like the UK a known US brownnoser and because it requires both countries to agree in an extradition to the US, the threat is very real. Although if the UK and/or Sweden did agree to extradite him, then they would have to explain how they could extradite him to a country that could use the death penalty against him... in Sweden that could mean the death of the government because Sweden is very much against capital punishment.

The US is also to blame. The rhetoric coming from official and unofficial sources, ranging from murderer, terrorist, to treason (which is idiotic since he aint an American lol), and all those involving the death penalty.. and the US refusing to take that off the table, only makes things highly problematic. There is no doubt that Assange would be rail-roaded in the US, because he has embarrassed not only the left (Obama) but the right (Bush and the GOP) with his leaks. He would also be tortured, just like Manning has been.

Europe should rip up their extradition treaties with the US in my opinion.
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There are many of us who'd be willing to rip up all agreements with Europe.

I love the characters you on the Far Left in Europe pick as your heroes. It speaks volumes about you as a culture. Anti-american bull**** being the prime requirement.
 
Infinite Chaos said:
That's not my problem - that's Ecuador and Julian Assange's.
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Well, maybe they can smuggle him out in a diplomatic pouch. He's an ass clown and let's hope something unfortunate happens to him somewhere along the line.
 
Wiggen said:
Well, there is that annoying rape thing in Sweden, but since this scumbag is a leftist hero for embarrassing the United States
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He did not embarrass the US. He only embarrassed the US government.

Don't lump freedom-loving Americans w/uncle sammy.
 
You speak for yourself when you proclaim your hatred for your own country. And don't presume to think that 'freedom loving Americans' join in with you and your anti-american bull****.
 
Wiggen said:
There are many of us who'd be willing to rip up all agreements with Europe.
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Yea we know .. why dont you pretty pleaseeeee.

I love the characters you on the Far Left in Europe pick as your heroes. It speaks volumes about you as a culture. Anti-american bull**** being the prime requirement.
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Ahh the usual personal attack, calling people far left, European and anti-american.

For the record.. I despise Assange as a person and on some of the things he did. I despise that he knowingly released information that would endanger people.

But I dont despise him for exposing US war crimes in Iraq. He should get a medal for that, and the US should be ashamed of the conduct of some of the military personnel and lack of accountability by the US military.

And most of the information he did release was embarrassing and hardly a national security threat. In fact some GOP congressmen and GOP members have done worse.
 
Wiggen said:
Well, maybe they can smuggle him out in a diplomatic pouch. He's an ass clown and let's hope something unfortunate happens to him somewhere along the line.
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Hey if being a scumbag was enough to get an lethal "accident", then Bush, Cheney, Rusmfeldt and a bunch of GOPers would be dining with Satan as we speak... but sadly we are not that lucky.
 
PeteEU said:
Europe should rip up their extradition treaties with the US in my opinion.
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Definitely. Then we can rip up all the contracts for any sort of agricultural and food aid, importation, exportation, etc.... to Europe; and all of the military treaties as well. Sounds like a swell idea to me.
 
PeteEU said:
And by doing so, every single UK citizen in Ecuador and allied nations are at risk from arrest.
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No they're not because all governments only arrest citizens if they have an incentive to do so. Just because the UK broke a treaty doesn't mean allied nations have any incentive to arrest UK citizens.

Arresting foreign citizens and/or deporting them would just be bad for tourism. And even Ecuador is certainly not in a position to blow its tourism industry by throwing a bunch of rich foreigners out.

Treaties are only meaningful in practice when the signing nations have an incentive to and can credibly enforce it. Otherwise, they're worthless.

PeteEU said:
Then you are ignorant. The Vienna Convention that governs embassies has been almost more sacred than the US constitution.
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Nowadays, the US constitution is routinely ignored and rarely enforced (except in cases where the aggrieved party has access to powerful lawyers).

The Vienna Convention and every other treaty is no different. Without an incentive to enforce it, no country would.

PeteEU said:
Not even the US, USSR, North Korea and so on would violate the convention because they know, that as soon as they do that, their own diplomats are going to be targets in any country on the planet.
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Totally false. Diplomats are only expelled for strategic purposes. Treaty violations are by themselves irrelevant. And the NK government can and will violate any and all treaties it has ever signed if it had an incentive to do so.

The US has taught the world that practice.
 
Wiggen said:
You speak for yourself when you proclaim your hatred for your own country.
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I don't recall ever expressing hatred for my country, only my government.

Once again, don't lump freedom loving Americans w/uncle sammy.
 
Wiggen said:
Well, there is that annoying rape thing in Sweden, but since this scumbag is a leftist hero for embarrassing the United States, you are apparently willing to overlook little things like rape. The hypocrisy of the Far Left has no limits.
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That rape case is complete bogus. Its about him refusing to wear a condom. Even if punished which is unlikely, he will only get a year in Sweden's luxury prisons. I seriously don't think he is scared of that.

Reality is, Sweden is refusing to interview him in the UK. Sweden is refusing to give him a guarantee of no extrication. And the UK is thinking about storming the embassy to take a man who didn't use a condom. It is pretty clear to me that Sweden will extricate him to the US where he will get life in prison.

Also, I am a conservative and I support Aasange. It has nothing to do with embarrassing the US. But I believe people shouldn't get punished for revealing secrets that shouldn't be secrets in the first place. Then we are no better than China.
 
How will they get him to the airport and out of the embassy?
 
Sherman123 said:
How will they get him to the airport and out of the embassy?
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They need to smuggle him out of the UK, and probably out of the EU as well. Then when in a more friendly country, they can take a private plane to Ecuador. They should wait for a while till Cameron cut security.

Diplomatic car is not going to work, because UK police will just follow the car till it stops somewhere.
 
Camlon said:
They need to smuggle him out of the UK, and probably out of the EU as well. Then when in a more friendly country, they can take a private plane to Ecuador. They should wait for a while till Cameron cut security.

Diplomatic car is not going to work, because UK police will just follow the car till it stops somewhere.
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Apparently the Ecuadorian Embassy is not a compound embassy and thus you cannot reach a car without stepping on British soil. You also cannot get onto a diplomatic plane because it would need permission to land and pick him up. According to this article it is all but impossible for him to be smuggled out.

What's next for Assange's extradition battle? - CNN.com
 
Sherman123 said:
Apparently the Ecuadorian Embassy is not a compound embassy and thus you cannot reach a car without stepping on British soil. You also cannot get onto a diplomatic plane because it would need permission to land and pick him up. According to this article it is all but impossible for him to be smuggled out.

What's next for Assange's extradition battle? - CNN.com
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The diplomatic car method wasn't going to work anyway. He needs to get out of the embassy unnoticed.

I can imagine a lot of people walk in and out of that embassy each day. They need to pretend he is one of the employees, hence he might need some plastic surgery. It will be easier done during the winter.

Then they can bring him to the carpark when security is low, and drive him out of the EU. Then they can get him to take a private plane from a more willing country.
 
Camlon said:
The diplomatic car method wasn't going to work anyway. He needs to get out of the embassy unnoticed.

I can imagine a lot of people walk in and out of that embassy each day. They need to pretend he is one of the employees, hence he might need some plastic surgery. It will be easier done during the winter.

Then they can bring him to the carpark when security is low, and drive him out of the EU. Then they can get him to take a private plane from a more willing country.
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That all seems fantastically unlikely.
 
Sherman123 said:
That all seems fantastically unlikely.
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It really depends on how much they want him. It's not an impossible plan and I think it will succeed. The hardest part is to get him out of the embassy, but during a winter day with 2 UK security guards they won't look at every single person leaving that carefully. After that it is easy. There are no border controls in the EU, and at the EU border it is too far away from the case.

But I have my doubts if Ecuador will do it. It is a lot of work, and it will piss of and humiliate the UK.
 
solletica said:
I don't recall ever expressing hatred for my country, only my government.

Once again, don't lump freedom loving Americans w/uncle sammy.
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Well, that's what all the anti-American assclowns say. "we don't hate the country; just the goverment". Can I tell you how happy I am that you like the Grand Canyon and the Mississippi River? It's a bull**** position.
 
Camlon said:
That rape case is complete bogus. Its about him refusing to wear a condom. Even if punished which is unlikely, he will only get a year in Sweden's luxury prisons. I seriously don't think he is scared of that.

Reality is, Sweden is refusing to interview him in the UK. Sweden is refusing to give him a guarantee of no extrication. And the UK is thinking about storming the embassy to take a man who didn't use a condom. It is pretty clear to me that Sweden will extricate him to the US where he will get life in prison.

Also, I am a conservative and I support Aasange. It has nothing to do with embarrassing the US. But I believe people shouldn't get punished for revealing secrets that shouldn't be secrets in the first place. Then we are no better than China.
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I am highly amused that you're willing to let scumbags like Assange decide which secrets should be revealed and which shouldn't. Unless, of course, your one of those who don't think anything should be secret?

As for the rape charges in Sweden, I think it's interesting how many people now think that rape isn't such a big deal after all.
 
Redress said:
Well, in one count that is questionable, and in the other three, illegal. See, most countries have these things called laws. When you don't follow those laws, you are subject to punishment. That is a big part of what we call civilization.
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Cool sarcasm, but what's clearly being questioned is the legitimacy of the laws not their existence and if you're of the mindset that laws are legitimate just by virtue of being laws, good luck with that.
 
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