School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens[W:150]

GPS_Flex · Aug 7, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

rathi said:
You make up a ridiculous scenario you get a ridiculous (but legally correct) answer.

Is that what you call your absurd response? Legally correct? Maybe in the mind of a liberal ACLU supporter but not in the real world where the intent of laws is based.

rathi said:
Title IX absolutely prevents discrimination based on pregnancy. The Chipman v. Grant County School case provides a good example.

No it doesn’t. In the case you quote, the plaintiffs were never asked about the status of their sexuality or informed of a rule such as this.
The plaintiffs in this case agreed, before attending the defendant school, to the terms and conditions set forth by the school. I’m sorry but you are comparing apples to oranges.

Kandahar · Aug 7, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

GPS_Flex said:
Is that what you call your absurd response? Legally correct? Maybe in the mind of a liberal ACLU supporter but not in the real world where the intent of laws is based.

No it doesn’t. In the case you quote, the plaintiffs were never asked about the status of their sexuality or informed of a rule such as this.
The plaintiffs in this case agreed, before attending the defendant school, to the terms and conditions set forth by the school. I’m sorry but you are comparing apples to oranges.

This is incorrect. Discrimination based on pregnancy is prohibited under Title IX. It doesn't matter what rules the school did or didn't set, they can't do it period.

§ 106.40 Marital or parental status.
(a) Status generally. A recipient shall not apply any rule concerning a student's actual or potential parental, family, or marital status which treats students differently on the basis of sex.

(b) Pregnancy and related conditions. (1) A recipient shall not discriminate against any student, or exclude any student from its education program or activity, including any class or extracurricular activity, on the basis of such student's pregnancy, childbirth, false pregnancy, termination of pregnancy or recovery therefrom, unless the student requests voluntarily to participate in a separate portion of the program or activity of the recipient.

(2) A recipient may require such a student to obtain the certification of a physician that the student is physically and emotionally able to continue participation so long as such a certification is required of all students for other physical or emotional conditions requiring the attention of a physician.

(3) A recipient which operates a portion of its education program or activity separately for pregnant students, admittance to which is completely voluntary on the part of the student as provided in paragraph (b)(1) of this section shall ensure that the separate portion is comparable to that offered to non-pregnant students.

(4) A recipient shall treat pregnancy, childbirth, false pregnancy, termination of pregnancy and recovery therefrom in the same manner and under the same policies as any other temporary disability with respect to any medical or hospital benefit, service, plan or policy which such recipient administers, operates, offers, or participates in with respect to students admitted to the recipient's educational program or activity.

(5) In the case of a recipient which does not maintain a leave policy for its students, or in the case of a student who does not otherwise qualify for leave under such a policy, a recipient shall treat pregnancy, childbirth, false pregnancy, termination of pregnancy and recovery therefrom as a justification for a leave of absence for so long a period of time as is deemed medically necessary by the student's physician, at the conclusion of which the student shall be reinstated to the status which she held when the leave began.

(Authority: Secs. 901, 902, Education Amendments of 1972, 86 Stat. 373, 374; 20 U.S.C. 1681, 1682)

[45 FR 30955, May 9, 1980, as amended at 65 FR 68056, Nov. 13, 2000]

34 C.F.R. Part 106

DiAnna · Aug 7, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

GPS_Flex said:
...The plaintiffs in this case agreed, before attending the defendant school, to the terms and conditions set forth by the school...

The thing is, if the "plaintiffs" who agreed were minors, they were legally unable to sign a binding contract. If the "plaintiffs" who agreed were adults of the minor children, the contract is unenforceable not only because it was coerced, but because they cannot by federal law relinquish their children's constitutional rights.

Kandahar is the expert on constitutional law, but even a legal layperson understands that a coerced contract, or a contract which gives up the constitutional rights of oneself or others is unenforceable and illegal.

GPS_Flex · Aug 7, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

Kandahar said:
This has a disparate impact on females, since no effort is apparently being made to mandate paternity tests (at least not that's mentioned in the story) and expel the father. And even if there was, it is not immediately obvious from appearances who the father is whereas a pregnancy is obvious. Since this has a disparate impact on women, it is a violation of Title IX. Furthermore, mandating a pregnancy test constitutes an unlawful search and seizure, as the school does not have a warrant and pregnancy is not illegal.

A disparate impact on females? Are you implying that women have no choice when it comes to having sex? Even if that were the case, do you think it is wise to base law upon the technological abilities of a prosecutor to determine who the co-conspirators to a crime are before convicting someone caught with a smoking gun in their hands?

Your position would result in no convictions of criminals who had co-conspirators if the co-conspirator can’t be found and convicted. The fact that there was likely a male participant has no relevance to whether the female violated the agreement that she signed with the school.

Kandahar · Aug 7, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

GPS_Flex said:
A disparate impact on females? Are you implying that women have no choice when it comes to having sex?

It is more obvious when a girl is pregnant than when a boy has fathered a child. Therefore, disparate impact.

Even if that were the case, do you think it is wise to base law upon the technological abilities of a prosecutor to determine who the co-conspirators to a crime are before convicting someone caught with a smoking gun in their hands?

Pregnancy is not illegal.

GPS_Flex · Aug 7, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

Kandahar said:
This is incorrect. Discrimination based on pregnancy is prohibited under Title IX. It doesn't matter what rules the school did or didn't set, they can't do it period.

34 C.F.R. Part 106

You missed this part: “unless the student requests voluntarily to participate in a separate portion of the program or activity of the recipient.” the student requested home schooling when she became pregnant.

vendur · Aug 7, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

All this babble of illegality is a waste of time unless we know of the documents signed when enrolling in this school. Any number of conditional enrollment policies could exist here.

Kandahar · Aug 7, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

GPS_Flex said:
You missed this part: “unless the student requests voluntarily to participate in a separate portion of the program or activity of the recipient.”

If the student volunteers to participate in a separate program, that's a different matter. That's no indication that this school's policy is limited to volunteers.

the student requested home schooling when she became pregnant.

What are you talking about? This story is about a school policy, not some specific student requesting homeschooling.

GPS_Flex · Aug 7, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

Kandahar said:
It is more obvious when a girl is pregnant than when a boy has fathered a child. Therefore, disparate impact.

Determining the father is simple; it is on the birth certificate because the mother knows who she had sex with. If she doesn’t know who she is having sex with, she shouldn’t be attending a charter school.

Kandahar said:
Pregnancy is not illegal.

No, it is an adult issue that you want to extend to children. Do you support child porn too? If not, why?

Kandahar · Aug 7, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

GPS_Flex said:
Determining the father is simple; it is on the birth certificate because the mother knows who she had sex with.

There is no indication that the school has any similar policy for fathers, nor is a name on a birth certificate sufficient evidence of anything to expel a student (even if such explusion were justified in the first place, which it isn't).

If she doesn’t know who she is having sex with, she shouldn’t be attending a charter school.

Yet another judgmental, double-standard, misogynistic statement that has nothing to do with getting an education.

No, it is an adult issue that you want to extend to children. Do you support child porn too? If not, why?

WTF are you talking about? I already showed you the specific parts of federal law that ban discrimination on the basis of pregnancy, on the basis of gender, and prohibit unlawful search and seizure. Yet you want to talk about child porn and your weird fantasies about peeping on high school girls. I'm done responding to your idiotic posts. You're trolling.

rathi · Aug 7, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

GPS_Flex said:
You missed this part: “unless the student requests voluntarily to participate in a separate portion of the program or activity of the recipient.” the student requested home schooling when she became pregnant.

Do you understand what the meaning of the world "voluntarily" is?

Mason66 · Aug 8, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

How does withholding education from a pregnant teenager help her or the baby?

How many will really go back after the pregnancy when she has to take care of the baby?

Does the name of the school "Delhi Charter School" have anything to do with this?

Delhi is in India and maybe they want the girls to follow some kind of moral code from India.

Carjosse · Aug 8, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

Mason66 said:
How does withholding education from a pregnant teenager help her or the baby?

How many will really go back after the pregnancy when she has to take care of the baby?

Does the name of the school "Delhi Charter School" have anything to do with this?

Delhi is in India and maybe they want the girls to follow some kind of moral code from India.

No, as far as I can tell the names of the city of Delhi and Delhi charter school is just a coincidence.

Darrell · Aug 8, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

DVSentinel said:
It is a Charter school, not a public one. If the state finds the policy unacceptable, then don't issue charters for it. Otherwise, it's private and the state has no business being involved.

It's discrimination. The state has the right to interfere.

E-M · Aug 8, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

GPS_Flex said:
If she doesn’t know who she is having sex with, she shouldn’t be attending a charter school.

**** you. Rarely does a comment on a message board truly make me angry. You are a misogynistic piece of filth.

Did you think for even a minute about the different types of girls that might not know who they had sex with? Did you forget that there was such a thing as rape, and that it happens fairly frequently? How about the fact that many girls who are raped keep that horror a secret because it fills them with shame? But thank god for assholes like you who are going to look at those girls and just assume they are 'loose', without knowing who they are or what they may or may not have experienced.

So this is the depths American conservatives can sink to. They are so huffed up on their own **** that they can't even recognize some of the most horrific struggles women and girls are faced with. I guess conservatives didn't put much thought to the fact that they might be kicking girls out of schools because they have been sexually abused. Scum like you might counter that a girl could just tell the school she was abused and they might give her leniency. In that case the options would be going to school or being forced to relive their trauma not own their own terms, but on some charter school administrators. No girl should ever have to go through that. Under these policies at least some certainly will.

As a society we need to protect those who are most vulnerable. The last thing we need to do is shame them, judge them, and take away their equal opportunity to a future.

You make me sick.

Caine · Aug 8, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

E-M said:
**** you. Rarely does a comment on a message board truly make me angry. You are a misogynistic piece of filth.

Did you think for even a minute about the different types of girls that might not know who they had sex with? Did you forget that there was such a thing as rape, and that it happens fairly frequently? How about the fact that many girls who are raped keep that horror a secret because it fills them with shame? But thank god for assholes like you who are going to look at those girls and just assume they are 'loose', without knowing who they are or what they may or may not have experienced.

So this is the depths American conservatives can sink to. They are so huffed up on their own **** that they can't even recognize some of the most horrific struggles women and girls are faced with. I guess conservatives didn't put much thought to the fact that they might be kicking girls out of schools because they have been sexually abused. Scum like you might counter that a girl could just tell the school she was abused and they might give her leniency. In that case the options would be going to school or being forced to relive their trauma not own their own terms, but on some charter school administrators. No girl should ever have to go through that. Under these policies at least some certainly will.

As a society we need to protect those who are most vulnerable. The last thing we need to do is shame them, judge them, and take away their equal opportunity to a future.

You make me sick.

Statistically speaking, Rape occurs most often between people who know each other.

Caine · Aug 8, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

radcen said:
There's another way, and it was actually relatively effective (until we lost the wherewithal to do it)... bring back public shame. Quit with all the oohing and aahing and baby showers and crap, and give them an earful of why they're being irresponsible to their kid by putting said kid at what is more then likely to be a disadvantage.

We do the opposite.

We give Teen Mom's their own show on MTV.

Which then encourages more teens to have babies.

E-M · Aug 8, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

Caine said:
Statistically speaking, Rape occurs most often between people who know each other.

Yah, I know. It is a well known statistic. That doesn't mean women don't get raped by people they don't know. GPS_Flex brought up girls who don't know who they had sex with as a group, and a portion of that group is women who have been abused. I was dealing with his argument specifically.

My overall point was that he was obviously forgetting about it entirely. Whether the girl knows her abuser or not makes absolutely no difference in relation to the policy. GPS_Flex and anyone who is missing that part of the equation is either disgustingly ignorant or plainly disgusting.

Aunt Spiker · Aug 8, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

Kandahar said:
School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens | Fox News
US School Forces Pregnancy Tests On Girls, Excluding Those Who Are Pregnant Or Refuse
Get Tested Or Get Out: School Forces Pregnancy Tests on Girls, Kicks out Students Who Refuse or are Pregnant

:shock:
Wow, this is terrible. It's a blatant violation of Title IX and it's gender discrimination, pure and simple. And it's made worse by the fact that this is a PUBLIC charter school in Louisiana.

LOL - are they going to pay for DNA testing, too, so they can determine who the father is and kick his ass out?

Psychos.

Henrin · Aug 8, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

Darrell said:
It's discrimination. The state has the right to interfere.

And that reason is?

Caine · Aug 8, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

E-M said:
Yah, I know. It is a well known statistic. That doesn't mean women don't get raped by people they don't know.

The statistic is so low, it is safe to assume that whatever girl was being mentioned knew all the guys she slept with, at least if not by First Middle and Last name, then at least by his thug "jump-up" name (Itz yo baby, Biggy T!)

GPS_Flex brought up girls who don't know who they had sex with as a group, and a portion of that group is women who have been abused. I was dealing with his argument specifically.

And that is why, specifically, your outrage over the 1% chance that she was legitimately raped by someone she didn't know is highly over the top.

My overall point was that he was obviously forgetting about it entirely. Whether the girl knows her abuser or not makes absolutely no difference in relation to the policy. GPS_Flex and anyone who is missing that part of the equation is either disgustingly ignorant or plainly disgusting.

Its time to stop acting like asking woman to be responsible is sexism.

Fishstyx · Aug 8, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

I wish people would read more than just the headlines.

From one of the linked articles:

Pregnant students wishing to continue attending Delhi Charter will be required to enroll in a home study course while pregnant.

So, no one is being denied educaiton for getting knocked up. In some ways, the home study concept might actually be beneficial to a pregnant student.

I have some beef with the way this is set up but approve of the premise. The "random prego tests" should be thrown out right away. I would also add that the boy invovled should also be subject to the same type of consequence as the pregnant girl does. Harder to prove but could be done with a solid interview process.

Teen pregnancy should be discouraged.

Tigger · Aug 8, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

Hatuey said:
What? You're being nonsensical at best. The state issuing charters does not give the school the ability to violate the basic constitutional rights of students.

Please show me where there is a Constitutional Right to an education, Hatuey. Assuming this is a Private institution, they most definitely have the right to determine which students they allow to attend.

Tigger · Aug 8, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

Fishstyx said:
So, no one is being denied educaiton for getting knocked up. In some ways, the home study concept might actually be beneficial to a pregnant student.

Especially if it focuses on the things that any girl's education should..... being a mother, wife, and homemaker.

TheNextEra · Aug 8, 2012

Re: School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens

Tigger said:
Especially if it focuses on the things that any girl's education should..... being a mother, wife, and homemaker.

If you don't want a woman working, there are plenty of other countries to go to. For an authoritarian, you sure do sacrifice your morals to keep yourself alive and in the U.S.

I think you should just call yourself a conservative and be done with it because you are not an authoritarian by action, only talk.

School policy forces students to take pregnancy tests, bans pregnant teens[W:150]

GPS_Flex

Kandahar

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DiAnna

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GPS_Flex

Kandahar

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GPS_Flex

vendur

Kandahar

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GPS_Flex

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rathi

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Mason66

Carjosse

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Darrell

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E-M

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Caine

Caine

E-M

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Aunt Spiker

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Henrin

Caine

Fishstyx

Tigger

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TheNextEra