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Thread: Blogger Giving Advice Resists State’s: Get a License

  1. #11
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    Re: Blogger Giving Advice Resists State’s: Get a License

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti
    I dont understand the issue. If someone is taking medical advice from a blog rather than a dr for a serious medical condition chances are they too stupid to make good choices whether this blog exists or not.
    Because people are susceptible to bribes and misinformation from suppliers of products and doctors are not people, right?

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640
    In some areas that is true, yet do you REALLY want "Homey the Handyman" to be able to tie into the power grid after wiring your new addition with recycled lamp cord?
    That would be an awesome business name. I would totally hire Homey the Handyman.

    I am not suggesting an end to certifications. How many hundreds (if not thousands) of certificates are available in the computer industry? Tons. How many of them are government certificates? Virtually none. This mean that Homey the Computer Programmer can write programs to his heart's delight so long as someone is willing to hire him (assuming a lack of certification). The same goes for any other type of job. I completely rewired a house I was working on even though I have never taken a single "course" and have no government licensure. The inspector later was impressed by the orderliness of the wiring and found nothing dangerous.

    In other words, it does not take a license to have knowledge. The opposite is also true, I know of many people who hold various government licenses who are mediocre at best in their particular trades. Do hairstylists really need to be licensed? Seriously. Take a look at this list of occupations which are licensed by many states in the U.S. and tell me it's not ridiculous:

    Accountants and Auditors
    Actuaries
    Administrative Service Managers
    Adult Literacy, Remedial Education, and GED Teachers and Instructors
    Advertising Sales Agents
    Aerospace Engineers
    Agents and Business Managers of Artists, Performers, and Athletes
    Agricultural Engineers
    Agricultural Inspectors
    Agricultural Sciences Teachers, Postsecondary
    Agricultural Workers, All Other
    Aircraft Pilots and Instructors (in addition to FAA)
    Ambulance Drivers and Attendants, Except Emergency Medical Technicians
    Amusement and Recreation Attendants
    Anesthesiologists
    Animal Breeders
    Animal Control Workers
    Animal Scientists
    Animal Trainers
    Appraisers and Assessors of Real Estate
    Arbitrators, Mediators, and Conciliators
    Arborists, Tree Surgeons, and Tree Service Specialty Contractors
    Architects, Except Landscape and Naval
    Art, Drama, and Music Teachers, Postsecondary
    Athletes and Sports Competitors
    Athletic Trainers and Valets
    Atmospheric and Space Scientists
    Audiologists
    Auditors, Energy
    Automotive Glass Installers and Repairers
    Automotive Master Mechanics
    Automotive Service Technicians and Mechanics
    Barbers
    Bartenders
    Bill and Account Collectors
    Biochemists
    Biological Scientists, All Other
    Biological Technicians
    Biomedical Engineers
    Boiler Operators and Tenders, Low Pressure
    Boilermakers
    Bus Drivers, School
    Bus Drivers, Transit and Intercity
    Business Operations Specialists, All Other
    Cabinetmakers and Bench Carpenters
    Calibration and Instrumentation Technicians
    Captains, Mates, and Pilots of Water Vessels
    Cardiovascular Technologists and Technicians
    Cargo and Freight Agents
    Carpenters
    Carpet Installers
    Cashiers, Parimutuel (Horse Racing)
    Cement Masons and Concrete Finishers
    Chemical Engineers
    Chemical Plant and System Operators
    Chemistry Teachers, Postsecondary
    Chemists
    Child Care Workers
    Child, Family, and School Social Workers
    Chiropractors
    Civil Engineers
    Clinical and School Psychologists
    Coaches and Instructors, Athletics
    Coin, Vending, and Slot Machine Servicers and Repairers
    Collections Agency Managers
    Commercial Pilots, Aerial Pesticide Applicators
    Computer Hardware Engineers
    Computer Science Teachers, Postsecondary
    Construction Managers and Contractors
    Construction and Building Inspectors
    Construction and Related Workers, All Other
    Control and Valve Installers and Repairers, Except Mechanical Door
    Conveyor Operators and Tenders
    Coroners
    Correctional Officers and Jailers
    Cosmetologists, Hairdressers, and Hairstylists
    Counselors, All Other
    Counter and Rental Clerks
    Court Clerks
    Court Reporters
    Crane and Tower Operators
    Credit Analysts
    Criminal Justice and Law Enforcement Teachers, Postsecondary
    Dental Assistants
    Dental Hygienists
    Dental Laboratory Technicians
    Dentists, All Other Specialists
    Dentists, General
    Dietetic Technicians
    Dieticians and Nutritionists
    Dining Room and Cafeteria Attendants and Bartender Helpers
    Door-to-Door Sales Workers, News and Street Vendors, and Related Workers
    Driver/Sales Workers
    Drywall Installers
    Earth Drillers, Except Oil and Gas
    Education Administrators, All Other
    Education Administrators, Elementary and Secondary
    Education Administrators, Preschool and Child Care Center/Program
    Education Administrators, School Superintendents
    Education, Training, and Library Workers, All Others
    Educational, Vocational, and School Counselors
    Electrical Engineers
    Electrical Power-Line Installers and Repairers
    Electrical and Electronics Repairers, Powerhouse, Substation, and Relay
    Electricians
    Electronic Home Entertainment Equipment Installers and Repairers
    Electronics Engineering Technicians
    Electronics Engineers, Except Computer
    Elementary (Public) School Teachers, Except Special Education
    Elevator Installers and Repairers
    Emergency Medical Technicians and Paramedics
    Employment Interviewers, Private or Public Employment Service
    Employment, Recruitment, and Placement Specialists
    Engine and Other Machine Assemblers
    Engineering Managers
    Engineering Teachers, Postsecondary
    Engineers, All Other
    Entertainers and Performers, Sports and Related Workers, All Others
    Environmental Compliance Inspectors
    Environmental Engineers
    Environmental Science Teachers, Postsecondary
    Environmental Science and Protection Technicians, Including Health
    Environmental Scientists and Specialists, Including Health
    Excavating and Loading Machine Operators
    Executive Secretaries and Administrative Assistants
    Explosives Workers, Ordnance Handling Experts, and Blasters
    Extraction Workers, All Other
    Farm Labor Contractors
    Farm and Home Management Advisors
    Farmers and Ranchers
    Farmworkers and Laborers, Crop, Nursery, and Greenhouse
    Farmworkers, Farm and Ranch Animals
    Fence Erectors
    Fiberglass Laminators and Fabricators
    Financial Specialists, All Other
    Fire Fighters
    Fire Inspectors
    Fire-Prevention and Protection Engineers
    First-Line Supervisors and Manager/Supervisors - Construction Trades Workers
    First-Line Supervisors and Manager/Supervisors - Extractive Workers
    First-Line Supervisors, Customer Service
    First-Line Supervisors/Managers of Construction Trades and Extraction Workers
    First-Line Supervisors/Managers of Farming, Fishing, and Forestry Workers
    First-Line Supervisors/Managers of Landscaping, Lawn Service, and Groundskeeping Workers
    First-Line Supervisors/Managers of Mechanics, Installers, and Repairers
    First-Line Supervisors/Managers of Non-Retail Sales Workers
    First-Line Supervisors/Managers of Personal Service Workers
    First-Line Supervisors/Managers of Production and Operating Workers
    First-Line Supervisors/Managers, Protective Service Workers, All Other
    Fish and Game Wardens
    Fishers and Related Fishing Workers
    Floor Layers, Except Carpet, Wood, and Hard Tiles
    Floor Sanders and Finishers
    Food Batchmakers
    Food Cooking Machine Operators and Tenders
    Food Science Technicians
    Food Service Managers
    Foreign Language and Literature Teachers, Postsecondary
    Forensic Science Technicians, Polygraph Examiner
    Forest and Conservation Workers
    Foresters
    Funeral Directors/Embalmers/Morticians
    Gaming Cage Workers, Change Persons, and Booth Cashiers
    Gaming Computer Systems Operators or Repairers
    Gaming Dealers
    Gaming - Horse Racing Vendors
    Gaming Managers
    Gaming - Race Horse Owners
    Gaming - Restaurant Managers
    Gaming Service Workers, All Other
    Gaming Supervisors
    Gaming Surveillance Officers, Security Officers, and Gaming Investigators
    Gas Appliance Repairers
    General and Operations Managers
    Geological and Petroleum Technicians
    Geologists and Hydrologists
    Glaziers
    Government Service Executives, Superintendents of Schools
    Grader, Bulldozer, and Scraper Operators
    Graders and Sorters, Agricultural Products
    Hazardous Material Removal Workers
    Health Diagnosing and Treating Practitioners, All Other, including Acupuncturists
    Health Educators
    Health Specialties Teachers, Postsecondary
    Health Technologists and Technicians, All Other, including Hearing Aid Dispensers
    Health and Safety Engineers, Except Mining Safety Engineers and Inspectors
    Healthcare Support Workers, All Other
    Hearing Aid Dispensers and Fitters
    Heating, Air Conditioning, and Refrigeration Mechanics and Installers
    Hoist and Winch Operators
    Home Appliance Installers
    Home Health Aides
    Human Resources, Training, and Labor Relations Specialists, All Other
    Hunters and Trappers, Commercial
    Industrial Engineers
    Industrial Production Managers
    Installation, Maintenance, and Repair Workers, All Other
    Instructional Coordinators
    Insulation Workers, Floor, Ceiling, and Wall
    Insurance Adjusters, Examiners, and Investigators
    Insurance Appraisers, Auto Damage
    Insurance Sales Agents
    Insurance Underwriters
    Interior Designers
    Internists, General
    Interpreters and Translators
    Janitors and Cleaners, Except Maids and Housekeeping Cleaners - Chimney Sweepers
    Kindergarten Teachers, Except Special Education
    Land Surveyors
    Landscape Architects
    Landscaping and Groundskeeping Workers
    Lawyers
    Legal Support Workers, All Other
    Librarians
    Library Science Teachers, Postsecondary
    Library Technicians
    Lifeguards, Ski Patrol, and Other Recreational Protective Service Workers
    Loan Officers
    Lobbyists
    Locksmiths and Safe Repairers
    Lodging Managers
    Log Graders and Scalers
    Maintenance Workers, Machinery
    Maintenance and Repair Workers, General
    Managers, All Other
    Manicurists and Pedicurists
    Manufactured Building and Mobile Home Installers
    Marine Architects
    Marine Engineers
    Marriage and Family Therapists
    Massage Therapists
    Material Moving Workers, All Other
    Materials Engineers
    Materials Inspectors
    Mathematical Science Teachers, Postsecondary
    Mechanical Door Repairers
    Mechanical Engineers
    Mechanical Inspectors
    Medical Assistants
    Medical Records and Health Information Technicians
    Medical Scientists, Except Epidemiologists
    Medical and Clinical Laboratory Technicians and Technologists
    Medical and Health Services Managers, including Nursing Home Administrators
    Medical and Public Health Social Workers
    Mental Health Counselors
    Mental Health and Substance Abuse Social Workers
    Metal Workers and Plastic Workers, All Other
    Microbiologists
    Middle (Public) School Teachers, Except Special and Vocational Education
    Millwrights
    Mining and Geological Engineers, Including Mining Safety Engineers
    Mixing and Blending Machine Setters, Operators, and Tenders
    Motion Picture Projectionists
    Motor Vehicle Operators, All Other
    Municipal Fire Fighters
    Municipal Fire Fighting and Prevention Supervisors
    -- Continued --

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    Re: Blogger Giving Advice Resists State’s: Get a License

    -- Continued --
    Nonfarm Animal Caretakers
    Nuclear Engineers
    Nuclear Medicine Technologists
    Nuclear Power Reactor Operators
    Nursery Workers
    Nursery and Greenhouse Managers
    Nurses, Licensed Practical and Licensed Vocational
    Nursing Aides, Orderlies, and Attendants
    Nursing Instructors and Teachers, Postsecondary
    Obstetricians and Gynecologists
    Occupational Health and Safety Technicians and Specialists
    Occupational Therapy Assistants
    Occupational Therapists
    Office and Administrative Support Workers, All Other - Notaries Public
    Operating Engineers and Other Construction Equipment Operators
    Opticians, Dispensing
    Optometrists
    Oral and Maxillofacial Surgeons
    Ordinary Seamen and Marine Oilers
    Orthodontists
    Orthotists and Prosthetists
    Packers and Packagers, Hand
    Painters, Construction and Maintenance
    Paperhangers
    Paving, Surfacing, and Tamping Equipment Operators
    Personal Care and Service Workers, All Other, including Tattoo Artists
    Personal Finance Advisors
    Personal and Home Care Aides
    Personnel Recruiters
    Pest Control Workers/Pesticide Handlers, Sprayers, Applicators, and Dealers
    Petroleum Engineers
    Pharmacists
    Pharmacy Technicians
    Physical Therapy Assistants
    Physical Therapists
    Physician Assistants
    Physicians and Surgeons, All Other
    Physics Teachers, Postsecondary
    Pile-Driver Operators
    Pilots, Ship
    Pipelayers and Pipelaying Fitters
    Plant Scientists
    Plant and System Operators, All Other
    Plumbers, Pipefitters, Gas Fitters, and Steamfitters
    Podiatrists
    Police Detectives
    Police Identification and Records Officers
    Police and Sheriffs Patrol Officers
    Police, Fire, and Ambulance Dispatchers
    Postsecondary Teachers, All Other
    Precision Devices Inspectors and Testers
    Preschool Teachers, Except Special Education
    Pressure Vessel/Boiler Inspectors
    Private Detectives and Investigators
    Probation Officers and Correctional Treatment Specialists
    Product Safety Engineers
    Production Workers, All Other
    Property, Real Estate, and Community Association Managers
    Prosthodontists
    Protective Service Workers, All Other
    Psychiatric Technicians
    Psychiatrists
    Psychologists, All Other
    Public Address System and Other Announcers - Boxing Ring Announcers
    Purchasing Agents and Buyers (Dealers), Agricultural/Farm Products
    Purchasing Agents, Except Wholesale, Retail, and Farm Products
    Radiologic Technicians, Technologists, and Therapists
    Range Mangers, Certified Wetlands Scientists
    Real Estate Sales Agents and Brokers
    Recreation Guides and Other Recreation Workers
    Recreational Therapists
    Refrigeration Mechanics
    Registered Nurses
    Rehabilitation Counselors
    Repossessor Agency Manager
    Respiratory Therapists
    Respiratory Therapy Technicians
    Retail Salespersons
    Roofers
    Rotary Drill Operators, Oil and Gas
    Sales Representatives, Agricultural - Lobster Sellers
    Sales Representatives, Chemical and Pharmaceutical
    Sales Representatives, Instruments
    Sales Representatives, Mechanical Equipment and Supplies - Aircraft Dealers
    Sales Representatives, Services, All Other
    Sales Representatives, Wholesale and Manufacturing, Except Technical and Scientific Products
    Sales and Related Workers, All Other, including Auctioneers
    Secondary (Public) School Teachers, Except Special and Vocational Education
    Securities, Commodities, and Financial Services Sales Agents
    Security Guards
    Security and Fire Alarm System Installers
    Self-Enrichment Education Teachers
    Separating, Filtering, Clarifying, Precipitating, and Still Machine Setters, Operators, and Tenders
    Septic Tank Servicers and Sewer Pipe Cleaners
    Sheet Metal Workers
    Ship and Boat Captains and Pilots
    Skin Care Specialists and Aestheticians
    Social Sciences Teachers, Postsecondary, All Other
    Social Workers, All Other
    Soil Scientists and Classifiers
    Special Education Teachers, Middle School
    Special Education Teachers, Preschool, Kindergarten, and Elementary School
    Special Education Teachers, Secondary School
    Speech-Language Pathologists
    Station Installers and Repairers, Telephone
    Stationary Engineers and Boiler Operators
    Storage and Distribution Managers
    Structural Iron and Steel Workers
    Substance Abuse and Behavioral Disorder Counselors
    Surgeon Assistants
    Tax Preparers
    Taxi Drivers and Chauffeurs
    Taxidermist
    Teacher Assistants
    Teachers and Instructors, All Other
    Telemarketers
    Tile, Marble, and Terrazzo Contractors
    Title Examiners and Abstractors
    Truck Drivers, Commercial
    Transportation Managers
    Transportation Workers, All Other - Elevator Operators
    Travel Agents
    Truck Drivers, Heavy and Tractor-Trailer
    Truck Drivers, Light or Delivery Services
    Umpires, Referees, and Other Sports Officials
    Upholsterers
    Urban and Regional Planners
    Veterinarians
    Veterinary Assistants, Technicians, and Wildlife Rehabilitators
    Vocational Education Teachers, Postsecondary
    Vocational Education Teachers, Middle School
    Vocational Education Teachers, Secondary School
    Water and Wastewater Laboratory, Treatment Plant, and System Operators
    Weighers, Measurers, Checkers, and Samplers
    Welders
    Well Drillers and Pump Installers
    Wholesale and Retail Buyers, Except Farm Products

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    Re: Blogger Giving Advice Resists State’s: Get a License

    I read the list... there are very few jobs in that list where I think it's ridiculous to try and regulate it. Mostly telemarketers. Pretty much everything else? Yeah, I'd like my pilots and engineers to be licensed before they get a job.
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    Re: Blogger Giving Advice Resists State’s: Get a License

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I read the list... there are very few jobs in that list where I think it's ridiculous to try and regulate it. Mostly telemarketers. Pretty much everything else? Yeah, I'd like my pilots and engineers to be licensed before they get a job.
    Why shouldn't I be allowed to fly an airplane unless THE GOVERNMENT says I can? Why do I have to comply with all these recurrent training procedures just so I can carry paying passengers? Who is THE GOVERNMENT to tell me that I can't work a duty day of 18 hours?
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    Re: Blogger Giving Advice Resists State’s: Get a License

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey
    I read the list... there are very few jobs in that list where I think it's ridiculous to try and regulate it. Mostly telemarketers. Pretty much everything else? Yeah, I'd like my pilots and engineers to be licensed before they get a job.
    Again, I'm not suggesting an end to occupational licensing. I simply allege that government licensing is generally counterproductive and arbitrary. Pilots get a commercial license with only 250 hours of flight experience. As far as the government is concerned, these pilots are qualified to fly people around for compensation. No company in its right mind would hire a pilot with only 250 hours experience and put him in a command position. It is the industry which self-regulates.

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    Re: Blogger Giving Advice Resists State’s: Get a License

    Licensing should be a signal to consumers. In the IT industry, having an A+ says you know how to fix and set up computers. But it's not a legal requirement to have one, it's just something that gives more information to employers and homeowners who just want someone to fix their computer.

    Where the lack of licensing poses a real danger to consumers, I can see it being required, but if you have to think of really improbable what if scenarios to justify licensing, then it's just not necessary. Like barbers, whenever someone objects to not requiring licensing for barbers they bring up scissors in the head type scenarios. but Britain has endured the scourge of unlicensed barbers and the worst that can be said is that Brits have weird hair sometimes.

    You'll also notice that licensing laws tend to grandfather existing incumbents in the industry. Florida's interior designer licensing requirements are extremely steep. And supposedly necessary for public safety. Yet 90% of interior designers in Florida do not meet the requirements becuase they were grandfathered in. So there's obviously no real public safety interest here.
    Last edited by francois60; 08-07-12 at 12:28 PM.

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    Re: Blogger Giving Advice Resists State’s: Get a License

    Quote Originally Posted by francois60 View Post
    Licensing should be a signal to consumers. In the IT industry, having an A+ says you know how to fix and set up computers. But it's not a legal requirement to have one, it's just something that gives more information to employers and homeowners who just want someone to fix their computer.

    Where the lack of licensing poses a real danger to consumers, I can see it being required, but if you have to think of really improbable what if scenarios to justify licensing, then it's just not necessary. Like barbers, whenever someone objects to not requiring licensing for barbers they bring up scissors in the head type scenarios. but Britain has endured the scourge of unlicensed barbers and the worst that can be said is that Brits have weird hair sometimes.

    You'll also notice that licensing laws tend to grandfather existing incumbents in the industry. Florida's interior designer licensing requirements are extremely steep. And supposedly necessary for public safety. Yet 90% of interior designers in Florida do not meet the requirements becuase they were grandfathered in. So there's obviously no real public safety interest here.
    Excellent post.

    A relatively little-known fact is that many industry advocacy groups actually support and endorse licensing, precisely because it stifles competition, and with less competition comes artificially higher prices, which translates into artificially higher profits for those already "in".

    Engineers, architects, pilots, etc., should be licensed. Interior decorators and hair braiders? No.
    If you claim sexual harassment to be wrong, yet you defend anyone on your side for any reason,
    then you are a hypocrite and everything you say on the matter is just babble.

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    Re: Blogger Giving Advice Resists State’s: Get a License

    Quote Originally Posted by francois60 View Post
    Licensing should be a signal to consumers. In the IT industry, having an A+ says you know how to fix and set up computers. But it's not a legal requirement to have one, it's just something that gives more information to employers and homeowners who just want someone to fix their computer.

    Where the lack of licensing poses a real danger to consumers, I can see it being required, but if you have to think of really improbable what if scenarios to justify licensing, then it's just not necessary. Like barbers, whenever someone objects to not requiring licensing for barbers they bring up scissors in the head type scenarios. but Britain has endured the scourge of unlicensed barbers and the worst that can be said is that Brits have weird hair sometimes.

    You'll also notice that licensing laws tend to grandfather existing incumbents in the industry. Florida's interior designer licensing requirements are extremely steep. And supposedly necessary for public safety. Yet 90% of interior designers in Florida do not meet the requirements becuase they were grandfathered in. So there's obviously no real public safety interest here.
    Good post. You make some very good points, concerning keeping an "'in" group or industry excusive club; much the same can be said for CCW permit laws, as they require private "NRA" classes rather than simply publishing the required material and letting the state give the "certification" test. Taxi cab licenses are another "club" type of deal, as are teacher certificates that require "special" classes given only by "special" teachers, rather than a simple test of knowedge or skills given by the state. A good "test" for whether the law is designed for REAL public safety is simply who gives the test/establishes the test material - the trade group or the gov't.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Blogger Giving Advice Resists State’s: Get a License

    Just got to say, the licensing of barbers and beautitians (? not sure what to call them) is due to more than a bad haircut. Scalps can be permanently damaged, not to mention beauticians works with some highly corrosive and deadly chemicals that when used improperly can cause all sorts of problems.

  10. #20
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    Re: Blogger Giving Advice Resists State’s: Get a License

    Quote Originally Posted by TNAR View Post
    Again, I'm not suggesting an end to occupational licensing. I simply allege that government licensing is generally counterproductive and arbitrary. Pilots get a commercial license with only 250 hours of flight experience. As far as the government is concerned, these pilots are qualified to fly people around for compensation. No company in its right mind would hire a pilot with only 250 hours experience and put him in a command position. It is the industry which self-regulates.
    I would rather have the gov't do the regulating than a "private" industry group, since the gov't is (in theory) under the control of the people, rather than only their CHOSEN members, but still prefer gov't inspectors rather than up front certification where possible. The reason to have a licensed "professional" is often simply to keep the total number "in the club" limitted by the club itself, thereby guaranteeing a VERY profitable supply/demand ratio REMAINS in place or to REQUIRE paying extremely high "dues" (to the club, of course) to get into and stay in the club.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 08-07-12 at 12:52 PM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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