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Thread: NASA's rover Curiosity lands on Mars [W:206]

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    re: NASA's rover Curiosity lands on Mars [W:206]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    expansionism and financial gain. We can't move to Mars, and unless it's just brimming with oil and precious metals, we aren't going to be making any profits from it, either.
    Of course we can move to Mars. We will some day. Exploring it is the first step.
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    re: NASA's rover Curiosity lands on Mars [W:206]

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    Of course we can move to Mars. We will some day. Exploring it is the first step.
    You can believe that if you want to, but you'd be living in a giant dome that'll be plastered by debris, since the atmosphere of Mars is very thin, and the gravity is way to light.
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    re: NASA's rover Curiosity lands on Mars [W:206]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    You can believe that if you want to, but you'd be living in a giant dome that'll be plastered by debris, since the atmosphere of Mars is very thin, and the gravity is way to light.
    So you think humans are never going to spread to other planets? 1 million year from now, you think we'll still just be on this one planet? Basically, you think history has more or less stalled out?
    Total tax rates- People living in poverty: 16.2%. The median American: 27%. Working people who make over $140k/year: 31%. The top 1%: 30%. Super rich investors: around 15%. Help the democrats retake the house.

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    re: NASA's rover Curiosity lands on Mars [W:206]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    So basically, hope for a future that may not exist because we keep spending on frivolous propaganda fodder like this while plummeting even further down a multi-trillion dollar deficit? Awesome. NASA is great, I love NASA and what they've done in the past, but now isn't the time to be spending over two and a half billion dollars to play with a remote control toy.
    So your argument is that we are in a multi-trillion potentially catastrophic fiscal situation driven by entitlements, tax reform, and defense spending, and so we should have avoided $365 million a year over the past decade to potentially help extricate ourselves from this situation in the future by opening up new frontiers?

    A deficit of a trillion dollars is not meaningfully even scraped by the amount spent on this program. To direct ire at it is to obfuscate and avoid the real issues.

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    re: NASA's rover Curiosity lands on Mars [W:206]

    Quote Originally Posted by Surtr View Post
    expansionism and financial gain. We can't move to Mars, and unless it's just brimming with oil and precious metals, we aren't going to be making any profits from it, either.
    Space is brimming with financial opportunities and room for expansion. Once again, many serious proponents of colonization do not propose the large scale settlement of any planetary body in our solar system. They favor orbital facilities for a variety of reasons some of which you mentioned. Also as evidence for financial gain being explored I suggest you look at the nascent Planetary Resources.

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    re: NASA's rover Curiosity lands on Mars [W:206]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    So your argument is that we are in a multi-trillion potentially catastrophic fiscal situation driven by entitlements, tax reform, and defense spending, and so we should have avoided $365 million a year over the past decade to potentially help extricate ourselves from this situation in the future by opening up new frontiers?

    A deficit of a trillion dollars is not meaningfully even scraped by the amount spent on this program. To direct ire at it is to obfuscate and avoid the real issues.
    $365 million
    $365 million there
    $365 million over yonder
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    re: NASA's rover Curiosity lands on Mars [W:206]

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    What was the point of the first of our ancestors to poke their heads out of the valley they evolved in? What was the point of exploring Europe and Asia? What was the point of crossing the Bering Straight to explore the Americas?
    They were probably lost, or the tribal witch doctor was insane.
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    re: NASA's rover Curiosity lands on Mars [W:206]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    The point absolutely still stands, it is a tremendous scientific venture that may yield enormous benefit to us in the future, it is impossible to know directly though there are more than decent avenues of inquiry if we want to examine what these benefits might be, and they have been listed.
    And I have pointed out that such benefits are insignificant and dubious. I'm starting to feel like a ****ing parrot here.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Furthermore in line with what others have said the entire enterprise of supporting our space program is a worthwhile endeavor for a variety of reasons. With the logic you are using we should have shutdown Tevatron years ahead of schedule, scale back from ITER, etc. The frontiers of scientific research and technological development have no immediate payback.
    You're failing to distinguish between science in general and a specific rover to Mars. I am 100% supportive of particle accelerators and research in quantum physics etc. These actually have potential to reveal enormous knowledge of our understanding of the universe and the nature of reality. In fact, I'm in favor of much greater funding of such endeavors. The Curiosity rover to Mars only seems comparable to the fundamental science being done at CERN to someone who knows very little about either.

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    Our future is in space not because of a far flung hope to colonize Titan or Mars in a mass scale (though I wish Elon Musk well in trying) it is because we have fantastic amounts of resources in space and an excellent base from which to expand into colonies. The line of approach that scientists, engineers, and space advocates have been pushing for, for decades has been a staged approach starting with a lunar base and the deployment of a mass driver to facilitate the refining of the resources in the lunar regolith for the eventual launching of those materials into orbit at the Lagrangian Points where colonies held in geosynchronous orbit can be assembled and spun. It is from there that solar satellites with microwave radio transmission antennas can be deployed (an engineering concept that has been thoroughly vetted and is currently being explored by EADS and India) for the generation and disbursement of power on a mass scale. From these small beginnings albeit with great financial investment mankind can begin his ascent into the stars and the exploitation of the resources that our solar neighborhood has to offer.
    Blah blah blah Lagrangian blah blah blah. This doesn't overcome the simple fact that it is prohibitively expensive (not just in simple financial terms, but in terms of energy) to harvest resources on other planets in our solar system. It's entirely possible that there will come a time in the distant future when this is no longer the case, but it's hardly relevant for discussion at this point.

    Regarding our "ascent into the stars"; it's a fantasy. As goldsmith has already admitted and I've pointed out to you, there are insurmountable physical limitations that prohibit the kind of interstellar and intergalactic travel that you're dreaming about.

    Bad News: Interstellar Travel May Remain in Science Fiction

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    There is so much we could do, so much to exploit, and so much that could help speed it along from NPP ships to legislative overhauls.

    It's also our destiny.
    Oh. Well, if it's our destiny, nevermind, i guess i'm wrong.

  9. #159
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    re: NASA's rover Curiosity lands on Mars [W:206]

    Quote Originally Posted by teamosil View Post
    So you think humans are never going to spread to other planets?
    This isn't Buck Rodgers, just because a planet has a surface doesn't mean human beings can survive on it.

    1 million year from now, you think we'll still just be on this one planet?
    We might not even exist in a million years. But yes, unless you can think of some other planets we can find that have similar conditions as Earth. Instead of hoping to ditch this planet, we should be looking for ways to un**** the mess we created in the first place.

    Basically, you think history has more or less stalled out?
    History has absolutely nothing to do with occupying another planet.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    re: NASA's rover Curiosity lands on Mars [W:206]

    Quote Originally Posted by Sherman123 View Post
    So your argument is that we are in a multi-trillion potentially catastrophic fiscal situation driven by entitlements, tax reform, and defense spending, and so we should have avoided $365 million a year over the past decade to potentially help extricate ourselves from this situation in the future by opening up new frontiers?

    A deficit of a trillion dollars is not meaningfully even scraped by the amount spent on this program. To direct ire at it is to obfuscate and avoid the real issues.
    2.6 billion dollars is a lot of money. So is the 150 billion spent on the ISS, as well as the billions in shuttle maintenance, and the billions we'll need to build a new shuttle from scratch. This **** adds up significantly, especially when added to other programs that costs us billions of dollars every fiscal year. Opening up uninhabitable frontiers that have little to no probability of generating revenue at this time is beyond stupid. If you can't see that, then I don't know what else to tell you.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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