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Thread: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

  1. #491
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    The ideology is already EXTREMISM, it is white supremacy/neo-NAZI-ism, he did not have to go outside of, beyond, the basic mainstream understanding of it. For you to argue that members of his own group, other neo-NAZI skinheads, should condemn his actions just shows how naive your understanding of this extremist group is. This is a group based on hate.
    In bold. Since I never said that, you might want to try discussing what I actually said.


    BS, this is an apology for any ideology, no matter how extreme the ideology is, no matter how wrong, destructive or corrosive. This is an attempt to make the irrational rational. This is an argument in favor of the worst ideologies, including the one at hand that is based on racism, xenophobia, homophobia, and anti-Semitism.[/quote]

    Not at all. What this does is place responsibility completely on the individual acting and does not stereotype. Everything that you said is your own BS, your own perception. Nothing more.

    You already have, you have done nothing but to repeat the same excuse, that the idea is not a problem. Again, the idea that other neo-Nazi skinheads should be the ones the to be critical of "the guy and his beliefs" is a recognition that there is something wrong with the beliefs, and you really think his beliefs are different from the group as a whole. That is pure naivety.
    And again, since I never said that, you can argue it all you like. Not my position so I have nothing to say about it.

    Ridiculous, your standard for measuring whether an ideology is a "problem" is if it has 100% of adherents acting out. If they are only being anti-Semetic 99% of the time when they encounter a Jew ....thats OK. If they are committing racism 99% of the time they encounter non-whites...that's OK. In your world, it is only when these acts happen 100% of the time by 100% of the adherents that the ideology is a "problem". And you complain about B&W mindsets.
    Again, when you want to discuss what I actually said, we can talk. If you want to discuss what you WANTED to me have said because it is far easier for your to debate, I'll just point out how you are misrepresenting thing, sit back, and watch you scream nonsense.

    You are back again to separating the human from the idea, that there are no bad ideas.
    Ideas are ideas. Actions are actions. Does someone get arrested for killing another, or thinking about killing another?

    Anti-Semitism is not a inborn behavior, it is an idea learned. It is not a socially accepted norm.
    Anti-semitism is an idea. Assaulting a Jew because of anti-semitism is a behavior. Since not all anti-semites assault Jews, the problem is with the individual. I have no love for anti-semitism. If you want to be an anti-semite, not associate with Jews, but not act on your anti-semitism, I do not care what you believe.

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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by Furiounova View Post
    The Sikh shooting was not domestic terrorism nor the batman massacre nor the Adkisson church attack. Those are all social terrorism. The term "domestic terrorism" is a BS media term designed to keep pretending the epidemic of shootings is not an epidemic.
    Sikh was classic Domestic Terrorism.

    "Social Terrorism" -- sounds made up.

  3. #493
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    In bold. Since I never said that, you might want to try discussing what I actually said.Not at all. What this does is place responsibility completely on the individual acting and does not stereotype. Everything that you said is your own BS, your own perception. Nothing more.And again, since I never said that, you can argue it all you like. Not my position so I have nothing to say about it.Again, when you want to discuss what I actually said, we can talk. If you want to discuss what you WANTED to me have said because it is far easier for your to debate, I'll just point out how you are misrepresenting thing, sit back, and watch you scream nonsense.
    Nonsense is arguing that an ideology, the ideas and values one has, what one has been exposed to and what one accepts as a norm, is never a problem.



    Ideas are ideas. Actions are actions. Does someone get arrested for killing another, or thinking about killing another?
    Uh, yes, we call it "conspiracy", we call them "threats". You do not have to carry out the act. Tell us again about that black and white world.



    Anti-semitism is an idea. Assaulting a Jew because of anti-semitism is a behavior.
    An act carried out as a result of of an idea, both of which are a problem.

    Since not all anti-semites assault Jews, the problem is with the individual.
    Again, your 100% baseline, ridiculous.


    I have no love for anti-semitism .
    Why not? It is an idea, you seem to have a great deal of respect for any idea. You previously showed can't make a value judgement on anti-Semitism, but now you say you "have no love".....apparently you are making a value judgement now.

    If you want to be an anti-semite , not associate with Jews, but not act on your anti-semitism , I do not care what you believe.
    So then once a person DOES commit an act of anti-Semitism, say, kill a family member....then you might care what that person believed, what motivated them, what was the idea that they believed in? Will it be only then that you start to be concerned with an ideology that IS an existential threat to you?
    Do you understand the point, yet?
    I understand what you think is a "point", you only are concerned with threats after they are carried out.



    You lost the argument back when you said that ANYONE should "condemn this guy and his beliefs", his beliefs are his ideology, an ideology shared by that extremist group. If you feel his beliefs should be condemned, then you are arguing against his beliefs, not just his actions.

    QED
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 08-09-12 at 12:45 PM.
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Like I said, more evidence that you don't know the difference between extremism and mainstream ideology.
    Hmm, the only evidence I see is that you had to delete my evidence (i. e. the citation I posted to "make" your point. Why is that?

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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by solletica View Post
    Hmm, the only evidence I see is that you had to delete my evidence (i. e. the citation I posted to "make" your point. Why is that?
    Because it wasn't evidence. You claimed it was, but since it was nothing but your opinion, it was irrelevant, so I dismissed it as I dismiss all irrelevant information.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


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    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
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    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  6. #496
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Nonsense is arguing that an ideology, the ideas and values one has, what one has been exposed to and what one accepts as a norm, is never a problem.
    Nonsense is asserting that it is THE problem and that people have no responsibility.

    See? I can argue something that YOU never said, just like you do.

    Uh, yes, we call it "conspiracy", we call them "threats". You do not have to carry out the act. Tell us again about that black and white world.
    Do try to debate honestly. I said "thinking" very clearly. I didn't say threaten or anything else. I said "thinking". So, since you decided to just straw man my argument, as you seem to do consistently, I can easily say that you don't know what you are talking about... which is accurate.

    An act carried out as a result of of an idea, both of which are a problem.
    Nope. The act is. Not unless thoughtcrime is now in place.

    Again, your 100% baseline, ridiculous.
    No, completely accurate. Your denial is ridiculous.


    Why not? It is an idea, you seem to have a great deal of respect for any idea. You previously showed can't make a value judgement on anti-Semitism, but now you say you "have no love".....apparently you are making a value judgement now.
    More dishonestly from you. Please point out where I said that one cannot make a value judgment. I can say I do not like an ideology all I want. There is a difference between me saying that and saying that an ideology is objectively "bad", which I did not say. You might want to try really reading what is being said so you can respond appropriately.

    So then once a person DOES commit an act of anti-Semitism, say, kill a family member....then you might care what that person believed, what motivated them, what was the idea that they believed in? Will it be only then that you start to be concerned with an ideology that IS an existential threat to you?
    I understand what you think is a "point", you only are concerned with threats after they are carried out.
    I would be concerned with how they interpreted the beliefs that they adhered to. I would be concerned with anyone who interpreted beliefs as giving them permission to murder, or in other words, break laws.



    You lost the argument back when you said that ANYONE should "condemn this guy and his beliefs", his beliefs are his ideology, an ideology shared by that extremist group. If you feel his beliefs should be condemned, then you are arguing against his beliefs, not just his actions.
    Actually, I never said that. And YOU lost the argument and continue to lose the argument each and every time you misrepresent my position, which you do in every post. Obviously, you can defeat a straw man argument, but since it's not MY argument, you just end up looking foolish... as you have.
    "Never fear. Him is here" - Captain Chaos (Dom DeLuise), Cannonball Run

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    Quote Originally Posted by Wiseone View Post
    This is what I hate about politics the most, it turns people in snobbish egotistical self righteous dicks who allow their political beliefs, partisan attitudes, and 'us vs. them' mentality, to force them to deny reality.

    Quote Originally Posted by Navy Pride View Post
    You can't paint everone with the same brush.......It does not work tht way.


    Quote Originally Posted by Wessexman View Post
    See with you around Captain we don't even have to make arguments, as you already know everything .
    Quote Originally Posted by CriticalThought View Post
    Had you been born elsewhere or at a different time you may very well have chosen a different belief system.
    Quote Originally Posted by ernst barkmann View Post
    It a person has faith they dont need to convince another of it, and when a non believer is not interested in listening to the word of the lord, " you shake the dust from your sandels and move on"

  7. #497
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    Nonsense is asserting that it is THE problem and that people have no responsibility.

    See? I can argue something that YOU never said, just like you do.
    The trouble is with your argument, that an idea is not a problem. You are still saying that.



    Do try to debate honestly. I said "thinking" very clearly. I didn't say threaten or anything else. I said "thinking". So, since you decided to just straw man my argument, as you seem to do consistently, I can easily say that you don't know what you are talking about... which is accurate.
    LOL...consistency? My god, one of the MANY problems has been your INCONSISTENCY, from saying that others should condemn his ideas, to saying the ideas are not the problem, and now shifting from "behavior" to "thinking". This is the new line, that I am making this a "thought crime". LOLOL! Don't talk to me about consistency, you have nothing to hang your hat on as far as that is concerned.



    Nope. The act is. Not unless thoughtcrime is now in place.
    Diversion and straw, you are turing the argument from "anti-Semitism, both the idea and the act, is a problem" to "you are making this a "thought crime"".
    It won't fly, you are creating a straw man to divert from your ridiculous position.



    No, completely accurate. Your denial is ridiculous.
    Your argument that an idea is only a problem, when 100% of adherents act on it, is beyond specious. NAZI ideology in Germany did not have 100% of the population as complete adherents, but you would be hard pressed to find anyone, other than neo-NAZI's, claiming that NAZI ideology "wasn't a problem".




    More dishonestly from you. Please point out where I said that one cannot make a value judgment. I can say I do not like an ideology all I want. There is a difference between me saying that and saying that an ideology is objectively "bad", which I did not say. You might want to try really reading what is being said so you can respond appropriately.
    Again you are contradicting yourself, on one hand you say others should "condemn him and his ideas", next you claim that is not saying the ideology is "objectively bad". How does that work? If neo-NAZI ideology should be condemned, is that not making a value judgement AND expressing it to those who hold to that ideology?



    I would be concerned with how they interpreted the beliefs that they adhered to. I would be concerned with anyone who interpreted beliefs as giving them permission to murder, or in other words, break laws.
    LOL, I see, when an ideology becomes an existential threat to you or your family....well, now it has been elevated form "not a problem" to "a concern".





    Actually, I never said that. And YOU lost the argument and continue to lose the argument each and every time you misrepresent my position, which you do in every post. Obviously, you can defeat a straw man argument, but since it's not MY argument, you just end up looking foolish... as you have.
    Actually, you did. And the fact that you can't face it, discuss it or explain it away shows how much in denial you are about it. If you call for others to "condemn this guy and his ideas", you are totally undercutting your contradictory argument that the ideology is not a problem. They are in logical opposition. It is the main point that you keep avoiding by denial and diversion.
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    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
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    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

  8. #498
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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee: racist whites on a murdering rampage again.
    Globalist = Free Trade, Open Borders, Multiculturalist, Anti-White Racist, Hypocrite, Sophist, Deceiver, Manipulator, Warmonger, Vulgar Culture, Morally Depraved......Enemy

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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by Matt Foley View Post
    Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee: racist whites on a murdering rampage again.
    racist or a moron who thought Sikhs were Islamists

    religious bigotry combined with brain dead ignorance is the real issue

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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    racist or a moron who thought Sikhs were Islamists

    religious bigotry combined with brain dead ignorance is the real issue
    ..and whites are evil too.
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