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Thread: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    Good point, because as we know 'right wing ideology' has nothing to do with racism.
    No more than "left wing ideology" has to do with classism.

    For ****s sakes...can we stop throwing out wide sweeping ignorant broad stroke statements about an entire span of an ideology due to what some morons on the most fringe ends of it happen to do?

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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    A BETTER idea is for members of that ideology to attack their own extremists. The more rightwingers that come out and condemn this guy and his beliefs, the more isolated he becomes... and the less most people will associate him with them.
    The reality is many members are condemning this guy and his beliefs. The issue is that in the midst of doing that we have to also correct the ignorant bull**** being slung around suggesting that, simultaneously as we blast this guy for being a horrible person and ignorant ****, we operate ideologically due to racism beause that's supposedly inherent to "right wing ideology" as a whole. It's hard to JUST condemn the extremists on your side, and you know I'm one that's quick to do that, when simultaneous to doing so you're being referred to as someone whose thought process is somehow inherently racist, your regional location means you're inherently racist, or in other circumstances that you're a step away from being Fred Phelps.

    I agree with you regarding extremists on both sides of the coin, and on the fact right wingers need to condemn guys like this. I'm simply saying that some of the reason why right wingers spend times in these threads away from condemning the guy is because were also having to argue that White Supremist views isn't somehow integral to the Right.

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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No more than "left wing ideology" has to do with classism.
    RWA's do trend towards racism.....but how in the world does that compare to the left describing classism? It is not as if the left created classes, they point out that it exists. That is hardly the same thing as participating in racist acts.

    For ****s sakes...can we stop throwing out wide sweeping ignorant broad stroke statements about an entire span of an ideology due to what some morons on the most fringe ends of it happen to do?
    Funny, isn't that what you were just trying to do with a false equivalence?
    Last edited by Gimmesometruth; 08-06-12 at 05:02 PM.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by CaptainCourtesy View Post
    There are extremists on both sides of the coin. I prefer to condemn the extremists rather than attacking the entire ideology. A BETTER idea is for members of that ideology to attack their own extremists. The more rightwingers that come out and condemn this guy and his beliefs, the more isolated he becomes... and the less most people will associate him with them.
    But you just made the argument that the ideology is not the problem.

    That is a total contradiction of arguments.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by Wiggen View Post
    It turns out the 'speculation' that the guy was a white supremacist and that the shootings were racially motiviated wasn't quite as 'mindless' as those on the Far Right wanted to believe.
    Funny how morons tend to trip over themselves decrying a 'rush to judgement' re acts of terrorism in the middle east yet they have no problem doing so in this case. You yourself dont even have the decency to allow the blood to dry before you turn a tragic incident perpetrated by a vulgar ugly human being into a mindless partisan attack. The truly sad thing...your trainwreck partisan mindset is at least as repugnant than the asshole that committed the act if not more so. He perpetrated the act...you bathe in it and attempt to score political points. Speaks volumes about the shooter...and...you.

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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    The reality is many members are condemning this guy and his beliefs. The issue is that in the midst of doing that we have to also correct the ignorant bull**** being slung around suggesting that, simultaneously as we blast this guy for being a horrible person and ignorant ****, we operate ideologically due to racism beause that's supposedly inherent to "right wing ideology" as a whole. It's hard to JUST condemn the extremists on your side, and you know I'm one that's quick to do that, when simultaneous to doing so you're being referred to as someone whose thought process is somehow inherently racist, your regional location means you're inherently racist, or in other circumstances that you're a step away from being Fred Phelps.

    I agree with you regarding extremists on both sides of the coin, and on the fact right wingers need to condemn guys like this. I'm simply saying that some of the reason why right wingers spend times in these threads away from condemning the guy is because were also having to argue that White Supremist views isn't somehow integral to the Right.
    In April 2009, DHS issued an intelligence assessment, co-authored by Johnson, titled " Rightwing Extremism: Current Economic and Political Climate Fueling Resurgence in Radicalization and Recruitment ." The document was one of many threat assessments shared between DHS and state and local law enforcement agencies to keep them apprised of potential and looming threats, and warned of a surge in right-wing extremism due to the election of the country's first black president and the economic recession.

    Although the report was intended only for distribution to law enforcement agencies, it was immediately leaked to the media causing a political firestorm among conservative pundits, who wrongly suggested that it labeled all conservatives as potential terrorists.

    DHS initially defended the report, but within days caved to political pressure and practically disowned it, with Secretary Napolitano apologizing to the American Legion for the report's mention of military veterans. But DHS did more than just publicly buckle under the political weight of conservative critics. According to Johnson, the department effectively dismantled his intelligence team following the right’s uproar.

    In an in-depth interview published in the Southern Poverty Law Center’s Intelligence Report , Johnson reveals the level of sway the political right had in thwarting intelligence work on right-wing extremism. He says DHS deliberately "mischaracterized the report as unauthorized, even though it had passed through proper channels" and "instituted restrictive policies that brought the important work of his unit to a virtual standstill." As a result, Johnson "left DHS in dismay and was followed by almost all the members of his team, leaving a single analyst where there had been six." In comparison, there are at least 25 analysts devoted to tracking Islamic terrorism.

    When questioned about Johnson’s claims -- which have been confirmed by current and former department officials in the Washington Post – DHS officials, speaking on condition of anonymity, have repeatedly disputed his account and insist that "the level of activity by right-wing extremist groups has remained consistent over the past few years." In addition, they claim "the perception of increased extremist activity may be due to increased awareness of the threat by the government and the public." But the numbers beg to differ.


    How the Political Right Bullied the Department of Homeland Security Into Ignoring the Threat of Right-Wing Extremism | Alternet
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    This is an argument to divorce ideology from action. It is totally false. The values you act upon can be legit, rational...or not. Those values can be judged. Your argument is to remove judgement of ideologies, an argument that ideas are all neutral, no matter how extreme that idea appears.
    However a white-surpremisist neo-nazi's ideology and view point is comparable in reference to the mainstream conservative ideology of Republicanism in the same way NAMBLA's ideology is comparable in reference to the mainstream GLBT communities ideology, or how ALF/ELF's ideology are comparable in reference to the mainstream Democrat.

    People shout out "right wing" ideology as with regards to this guy and his extremist fringe views as if him and the run of the mill Republican off the street must be one in the same outside of this guy actually killed someone.

    It's not that the views of white supremacy/neo-nazi-ism arne't problematic. It's that many in this thread are routinely attempting to make it out that they're somehow in lock step or close analogs to mainstream Republicans, or are simply right in line with "right wing ideology" all together as if those who think that Whites are inherently superior to other races is somehow right there analogous with "lower taxes stimulate the economy" in terms of what the universal notion of "right wing ideology" is.

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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post
    No more than "left wing ideology" has to do with classism.

    For ****s sakes...can we stop throwing out wide sweeping ignorant broad stroke statements about an entire span of an ideology due to what some morons on the most fringe ends of it happen to do?
    If this guy thought he hit Muslims, do you think we would have to dig to find the rhetoric that validated his actions? Do you realize think the Adkisson terrorist attack had anything to do with the voices he was surrounding himself with on a daily basis?
    My main function as a Christian is to be the biggest possible jerk as a demonstration of the awe found in God's Grace and Forgiveness. (That love part comes in to play at some point)

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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    Quote Originally Posted by Zyphlin View Post

    It's not that the views of white supremacy/neo-nazi-ism arne't problematic.
    Sorry, but the argument Capt is making is that the ideas are not the problem.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Mass Shooting at Sikh Temple Outside Milwaukee [W:211]

    In thinking about the extremes of right and left wings, I think they are opposite sides of the same coin.
    The right wing fears the unknown, so assumes it is inherently bad.
    The left wing through multiculturalism assumes the unknown is inherently good.
    both approaches are extreme and dangerous in their own right.
    Different cultures are nether good or bad, just different, and like our own, some good some bad.
    The best we can hope for is to learn and embrace the good parts, and not pick up the bad parts.

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