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Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

Conservative said:
Since you stated that lowering taxes creates jobs don't those employed people pay taxes? Why is it liberals never understand what economic growth does to tax revenue? Do you even know what makes up tax revenue? Only FIT? Did you know that Reagan tax cuts led to 16 million new taxpayers and an increase in tax revenue by 60%? U.S. Treasury Data
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Hold on now. What I said was lowering taxes can lead to increased demand. That's not a sure thing.

The problem with lowering taxes and lowering taxes is that you run into the inability to run the government you want. We're there now. Now would be a great time to lower taxes, but they'd never get brought back to a reasonable level.
 
rocket88 said:
Hold on now. What I said was lowering taxes can lead to increased demand. That's not a sure thing.

The problem with lowering taxes and lowering taxes is that you run into the inability to run the government you want. We're there now. Now would be a great time to lower taxes, but they'd never get brought back to a reasonable level.
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So a 3.8 trillion dollar govt is what you want? I am still waiting for you or anyone else to explain to me how raising taxes on the top 2% benefits the economy and creates more economic growth? The lack of an answer is quite telling.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
Um....aside from your rhetoric and totally ignoring what I posted, the money being borrowed....is not being "confiscated".

So tell me again how superior your macroecon understanding is......after you actually respond to what I posted.



Well, you are not even going to touch on what the con/libertarian solution might be, and instead revert back to responding, sort of, to the first half of my post. The ARRA did save a whole lot of jobs......but that was a part of what it did, it was mostly tax relief to low/middle income earners and that also did have a multiplier effect, well documented. If anyone said they had a real idea just how bad things were going in Jan 09, where we would end up, they didn't. $237B in grants for a $14T economy was not going to do that, most knew it had no chance of turning the ship around, creating 2 to 4 million jobs helped, but it was not enough.

So again, you avoid talking about what would work to mainly focus on rhetoric...seems like that is what you prefer. Thats cool, it is just ironic complaining about my lack of reality based discussion while you are doing it.
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The "multiplier effect" is 1x on government spending. Why do you think Obama fired Christina Romer? In her capacity as head of the Council of Economic Advisers, she studied tax cuts from 47' to 2005 and found a multiplier effect of 3 . This means each government created job cost taxpayers $200,000.00. Whereas a tax cut would have created 3 times as many jobs, and saved taxpayers billions.
 
Eighty Deuce said:
That is a BS stat, refuted over and over. If you wanna believe it, its right up there between unicons and rainbows. That particular report got a bunch of WAPO Pinnochio's, it was so flawed.
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Going back to Eisenhower, federal spending has risen on average 7 percent a year, or 2.6 percent when adjusted for inflation. After the spending burst of 2009, Mr. Obama, constrained by Congress and aided by repayments of bank and auto bailouts, increased spending just 0.5 percent a year over the next three fiscal years when adjusted for inflation; only two other three-year periods since Eisenhower had lower spending growth.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/20/us/politics/fact-checking-obama-and-romney.html?pagewanted=all


What is sad is that you could not bring yourself to even read the rest of the post, and any future response will be simplistic hand waving.
Thanks for trying...sort of.
 
Conservative said:
So a 3.8 trillion dollar govt is what you want? I am still waiting for you or anyone else to explain to me how raising taxes on the top 2% benefits the economy and creates more economic growth? The lack of an answer is quite telling.
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Then you should ask someone who supports raising taxes. The fact that you can't seem to ask the right person is quite telling (about your ability to read what is written).

Where do the cuts come from? The GOP won't let us cut defense. That's a large percentage of the budget right there.
 
rocket88 said:
Then you should ask someone who supports raising taxes. The fact that you can't seem to ask the right person is quite telling (about your ability to read what is written).

Where do the cuts come from? The GOP won't let us cut defense. That's a large percentage of the budget right there.
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Here are the line item expenses for the Federal Govt. How many times do I have to post it. Why is SS and Medicare on budget? Then how many of those items are duplicated at the state level. I can get the budget down to 1.5 trillion dollars. Get there then we can talk about tax increases.

Expenses

Defense 708.3
International Affairs 45.7
Gen. Science, Space 30.4
Energy 12.1
Natural resources/env 43.3
Agriculture 22.6
Commerce/Housing Cr -13.8
Transportation 93.2
Community Dev 24.9
Education/Train/Social 98.0
Health 372.7
Medicare 485.7
Income Security 599.3
Social Security 730.8
Veterans Benefits 127.2
Justice 56.7
General Govt. 20.7
Net Interest 227.1
 
Conservative said:
Great tactic, when you get a job and four years into that job continue to blame the previous job holder for your poor performance. Let me know how that works out for you
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What is my tactic? Seriously bud, please read my posts or stop quoting them. You clearly have no idea what I said.
 
Romulus said:
The "multiplier effect" is 1x on government spending. Why do you think Obama fired Christina Romer? In her capacity as head of the Council of Economic Advisers, she studied tax cuts from 47' to 2005 and found a multiplier effect of 3 . This means each government created job cost taxpayers $200,000.00. Whereas a tax cut would have created 3 times as many jobs, and saved taxpayers billions.
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You have some the wackiest economic theories and non-sourced comments I have ever seen! A multiplier effect does not INCREASE the COST of govt spending, at all.

FFS!
 
muciti said:
ok. well if you want to throw figures at me in the future be prepared to support it. I understand you made it up this time and are incapable of supporting it.
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This is a joke, isn't it? Is unemployment higher or lower this month than last? that is the thread topic.
 
muciti said:
What is my tactic? Seriously bud, please read my posts or stop quoting them. You clearly have no idea what I said.
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You said that the 23 million people unemployed/under employed would probably still be blaming Bush four years later. I suggest you employ that tactic in explaining your poor performance four years into a new job
 
Conservative said:
This is a joke, isn't it? Is unemployment higher or lower this month than last? that is the thread topic.
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Stop quoting until you read the post. This was in direct response to eighty duece making up number and slewing it as fact. Is this really that hard? You have posted 32,000+ times and you still dont know how to reply a post or read it? That is something special right there. Almost a talent.
 
Conservative said:
You said that the 23 million people unemployed/under employed would probably still be blaming Bush four years later. I suggest you employ that tactic in explaining your poor performance four years into a new job
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Did I blame Bush? Do you think that the majority of poor in this country dont blame Bush? Do you think the majority of the poor support romney over obama? Basically do you believe my statement to be inaccurate?
 
muciti said:
Stop quoting until you read the post. This was in direct response to eighty duece making up number and slewing it as fact. Is this really that hard? You have posted 32,000+ times and you still dont know how to reply a post or read it? That is something special right there. Almost a talent.
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Typical Obama supporter, always pick data that you don't understand and spin it positively for your candidate.
 
conservative said:
i can get the budget down to 1.5 trillion dollars.
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Hello, my name is Tommy Flanagan, and I'm a member of Pathological Liars Anonymous. In fact.. I'm the president of the organization!

I didn't always lie. No, when I was a kid, I told the truth. But then one day, I got caught stealing money out of my mother's purse. I lied. I told her it was homework - that my teacher told me to do it. And she got fired! Yeah, that's what happened!

After that, lying was easy for me. I lied about my age and joined the army. I was thirteen at the time. Yeah.. I went to Vietnam, and I was injured catching a mortar shell in my teeth. And they made me a three-star general! And then I got a job in journalism, writing for the National Enquire.. er, Geographic! Yeah.. I was making twenty thousand a ye.. month! In fact, I won the Pulitzer Prize that year! Yeah, that's the ticket.

And then my cousin died - Joe Louis - and I took it hard. Maybe too hard - I tried to kill myself. Yeahh.. I did kill myself! Sure! I was medically dead for a week and a half! It was a woman that brought me out of it - Indira Gandhi! Yeah, right.. And she told me about Pathological Liars Anonymous.

Oh, you'd be surprised how many famous people belong. In fact.. at one of the meetings I met my wife - Morgan Fairchild! Yes, I'm a change man now, and all because of Pathological Liars Anonymous. Why, I - I even have my picture on the cover of Newsweek magazine. Yeah. Every day! Yeah.. that's the ticket! Yeah, you betcha!
 
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Conservative said:
Typical Obama supporter, always pick data that you don't understand and spin it positively for your candidate.
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you accidently quoted me again and failed to address my post.

you want to talk about typical? i'd say you the typical conservative who assumes that anyone who does not beleive his twisted lies and half truths must be an obama supporter, but that wouldnt be fair to the intelligent conservatives.
 
muciti said:
Did I blame Bush? Do you think that the majority of poor in this country dont blame Bush?
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Not for current conditions they don't. Not anymore. Obama has had his term, the bag he's holding right now is his.

muciti said:
Do you think the majority of the poor support romney over obama? Basically do you believe my statement to be inaccurate?
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Don't know, we'll have to wait until November 3rd to find that out.
 
muciti said:
Stop quoting until you read the post. This was in direct response to eighty duece making up number and slewing it as fact. Is this really that hard? You have posted 32,000+ times and you still dont know how to reply a post or read it? That is something special right there. Almost a talent.
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Is this the Harry Reid approach ? Show what number was "made up". Do you have such little grasp of issues that your only retort to facts you do not like is to claim it was "made up" ? Do you even know what the national debt is ?

Show what was "made up" or shut up.
 
Conservative said:
Here are the line item expenses for the Federal Govt. How many times do I have to post it. Why is SS and Medicare on budget? Then how many of those items are duplicated at the state level. I can get the budget down to 1.5 trillion dollars. Get there then we can talk about tax increases.

Expenses

Defense 708.3
International Affairs 45.7
Gen. Science, Space 30.4
Energy 12.1
Natural resources/env 43.3
Agriculture 22.6
Commerce/Housing Cr -13.8
Transportation 93.2
Community Dev 24.9
Education/Train/Social 98.0
Health 372.7
Medicare 485.7
Income Security 599.3
Social Security 730.8
Veterans Benefits 127.2
Justice 56.7
General Govt. 20.7
Net Interest 227.1
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Still having trouble with reading? I didn't say to raise taxes, I said that lowering them further seems to be a bad idea. Go ask someone who did.
 
muciti said:
Did I blame Bush? Do you think that the majority of poor in this country dont blame Bush? Do you think the majority of the poor support romney over obama? Basically do you believe my statement to be inaccurate?
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The don't post that the 23 million unemployed/under employed Americans probably will be blaming Bush since you don't know that nor would it be effective four years later. If they are truly blaming Bush then they are too ignorant to vote and know very little about civics.
 
muciti said:
you accidently quoted me again and failed to address my post.

you want to talk about typical? i'd say you the typical conservative who assumes that anyone who does not beleive his twisted lies and half truths must be an obama supporter, but that wouldnt be fair to the intelligent conservatives.
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Twisted lies and half truths? Sounds like an attack to me without anything factual to support it
 
clownboy said:
Not for current conditions they don't. Not anymore. Obama has had his term, the bag he's holding right now is his.



Don't know, we'll have to wait until November 3rd to find that out.
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If you dont believe that the majority of the poor generally vote democrat when they vote it your own ignorance.
 
Conservative said:
Twisted lies and half truths? Sounds like an attack to me without anything factual to support it
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this is an entire devoted to twisting information. I have shown you repeated numbers showing that since 2010 our economy has been getting better. You are twisting numbers and showing partial data to mislead people.

And for lies, you have called me an Obama supporter, a typical obama supporter and a liberal. Those are lies.

So there is my factual data and it is far from an attack. Just calling it what it is.
 
Gimmesometruth said:
You have some the wackiest economic theories and non-sourced comments I have ever seen! A multiplier effect does not INCREASE the COST of govt spending, at all.

FFS!
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You obviously don't understand what a multiplier effect is, or that government spending is a cost. Each job created by government stimulus spending cost $200K an ME of 1, Romer found by studying the real world data that stimulus through tax cuts produces an ME of 3. So Obama fired her. Tax cuts cost taxpayers nothing, in fact..it saves them money. Deficit spending stimulus costs taxpayers the service on the debt, future higher taxes, or a loss of some government service.
 
Conservative said:
The don't post that the 23 million unemployed/under employed Americans probably will be blaming Bush since you don't know that nor would it be effective four years later. If they are truly blaming Bush then they are too ignorant to vote and know very little about civics.
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Whether you believe they are too ignorant or not is not relevant. Polls and studies show that poor (and the unemployed tend to be poor) favor democratic candidates. Stating that it was my tactic to make them think it or whatever you were getting as was just you failing to understand what I said.
 
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