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Thread: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    Kind of like you haven't posted the policies that Bush signed that put us into the recession you blame him for. Still waiting for that so its hard for reasonable people to place blame but not hard for the liberal robots.
    I know you keep waiting for that, but we are still trying to get through the basic principle, a principle whereby you say:

    "Economic policy is responsible for the results".

    If that is true for any President, then it is true for BOTH Bush and Obama. No caveats, no parsing...just straight up.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    I know you keep waiting for that, but we are still trying to get through the basic principle, a principle whereby you say:

    "Economic policy is responsible for the results".

    If that is true for any President, then it is true for BOTH Bush and Obama. No caveats, no parsing...just straight up.
    You are right, I left out economic policies when passed by Congress are responsible for results, you know like the Obama stimulus plan that was presented by Obama and passed by Congress that was to provide for shovel ready jobs? Today over 3 years later the results speak for themselves, 8.3% official unemployment, 15% U-6, 5.4 trillion added to the debt, and still a 4 million net job loss from when the recession started. Keep drinking that liberal kool-ade

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Why do I have this feeling, that if this were a right wing administration, the right wing on this debate, and even the libertarians, wouldn't be scrambling to show the worse aspects of the economy? And then in that case, the left wing would be doing what the right wing is doing now with Obama, painting the worse picture imaginable.

    The economy is better then it was at the start of the crash right? Would the libertarians and conservatives agree with that or not? This gets into the taxes and regulation argument if I'm not mistaken, I'm sure thats already been mentioned and debated here a thousand times over, so I'll just say for the businesses that have large profits, I fail to see how some added taxes and or some new regulations are going to kill them? Either they lose a little profit, or they refuse to hire workers they might need, and cut workers pay and or fire some altogether. If they go that route, then they look like a bunch of assholes. Literally, thats the best way I can say it, sorry for the language. (I'm not looking back through endless pages of debate to see for myself what they'd say, so I'll just wait for one of ya to answer me here)
    Last edited by Crossroads; 08-06-12 at 08:35 PM.

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by Crossroads View Post
    Why do I have this feeling, that if this were a right wing administration, the right wing on this debate, and even the libertarians, wouldn't be scrambling to show the worse aspects of the economy? And then in that case, the left wing would be doing what the right wing is doing now with Obama, painting the worse picture imaginable.

    The economy is better then it was at the start of the crash right? Would the libertarians and conservatives agree with that or not? This gets into the taxes and regulation argument if I'm not mistaken, I'm sure thats already been mentioned and debated here a thousand times over, so I'll just say for the businesses that have large profits, I fail to see how some added taxes and or some new regulations is going to kill them? Either they lose a little profit, or they refuse to hire workers they might need, and cut workers pay and or fire some altogether. If they go that route, then they look like a bunch of assholes. Literally, thats the best way I can say it, sorry for the language. (I'm not looking back through endless pages of debate to see for myself what they'd say, so I'll just wait for one of ya to answer me here)
    No, the economy isn't better than at the start of the crash when there were 146 million people working and today that is 142 million. Is that better? At the start of the crash the debt was 10.6 trillion and today it is almost 16 trillion, is that better? at the beginning of the crash there were 115 million private sector jobs whereas today that is 111 million is that better?

    As for taxes, how does increasing taxes on anyone benefit the U.S. economy which is 70% consumer driven? How did any rich person make someone else poor? This isn't a zero sum economy where someone wins and someone else loses. Anyone that takes personal responsibility, works hard, takes risk shouldn't be penalized for generating positive results. A good leader doesn't punish success, he tries to spread that success to everyone else. Obama is the most devisive President ever and promotes class warfare. That along with the results make him a failure.

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You are right, I left out economic policies when passed by Congress are responsible for results, you know like the Obama stimulus plan that was presented by Obama and passed by Congress that was to provide for shovel ready jobs? Today over 3 years later the results speak for themselves, 8.3% official unemployment, 15% U-6, 5.4 trillion added to the debt, and still a 4 million net job loss from when the recession started. Keep drinking that liberal kool-ade
    So is that a yes..or a no....that "Economic policy is responsible for the results".

    You keep wobbling.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    You are right, I left out economic policies when passed by Congress are responsible for results, you know like the Obama stimulus plan that was presented by Obama and passed by Congress that was to provide for shovel ready jobs? Today over 3 years later the results speak for themselves, 8.3% official unemployment, 15% U-6, 5.4 trillion added to the debt, and still a 4 million net job loss from when the recession started. Keep drinking that liberal kool-ade
    If you want to look at the effectiveness of of the Stimulus Package, I would suggest looking at the studies on how many jobs were created and or saved due to that legislation, not look at the overall increase in unemployment, which was bound to go up anyway. Also, as for the total jobs lost, even the most anti Obama person out there has to admit A CERTAIN level of space for Obama when it comes to his effect on the job numbers. As in, you obviously can't blame him for the jobs lost at the very beginning of the collapse, and at LEAST a year or so after, for the most part. So even if you say the recovery (or lack there of) is slower because of Obama, the use of that 4 million job loss number since the beginning of the recession is a bit misleading.

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    So is that a yes..or a no....that "Economic policy is responsible for the results".

    You keep wobbling.
    If the economic policies were implemented, yes they would be responsible for the results.

    I know you want badly to continue to divert from the Obama results, maybe this will help get you back on track

    Mourning in America - YouTube

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by Crossroads View Post
    If you want to look at the effectiveness of of the Stimulus Package, I would suggest looking at the studies on how many jobs were created and or saved due to that legislation, not look at the overall increase in unemployment, which was bound to go up anyway. Also, as for the total jobs lost, even the most anti Obama person out there has to admit A CERTAIN level of space for Obama when it comes to his effect on the job numbers. As in, you obviously can't blame him for the jobs lost at the very beginning of the collapse, and at LEAST a year or so after, for the most part. So even if you say the recovery (or lack there of) is slower because of Obama, the use of that 4 million job loss number since the beginning of the recession is a bit misleading.
    First of all show me any reputable source that calculates a saved job. BLS sure doesn't and as I pointed out which you want to ignore there are even more unemployed today than when Obama took office.

    The four million is in response to your question, what were the numbers when the crash began, that was in December 2007. Why would that be misleading in a growing population and economy?

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Two years after the worst recession since the Great Depression, 81-82 showing what leadership can do

    Ronald Reagan TV Ad: "Its morning in america again" - YouTube

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    No, the economy isn't better than at the start of the crash when there were 146 million people working and today that is 142 million. Is that better? At the start of the crash the debt was 10.6 trillion and today it is almost 16 trillion, is that better? at the beginning of the crash there were 115 million private sector jobs whereas today that is 111 million is that better?
    So what you're saying is that you would prefer an economy where we are losing better than half a million jobs every month, GDP growth clocks in at NEGATIVE 6.7%, the stock markets are crashing, the financial sector is crumbling, home values are plummeting, foreclosures are skyrocketing, and it's virtually impossible to get a loan....? I doubt it.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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