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Thread: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by Romulus View Post
    You are hung up on changing the subject when you get cornered. QE3 will cause a spike in commodity prices. Do you want to argue against that, or make some other extraneous point?
    Of course it will - anyone that says it will not has NO idea what they are talking about.

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by Romulus View Post
    You are hung up on changing the subject when you get cornered. QE3 will cause a spike in commodity prices. Do you want to argue against that, or make some other extraneous point?
    I changed the subject.....to what? You mean I showed the broader point that commodity prices since 2003 (reflected in the 1st graph posted) have been on a boom due to world-wide demand and NOT a result of QE?

    Note: That is not "changing the subject", it is making the signal clear and eliminating the noise.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by Conservative View Post
    When you explain to us all why we need a 3.8 trillion dollar Federal Govt., individual wealth redistribution, and class warfare, then we can discuss tax increases
    I don't know anyone who has argued for that. Most of this is a fanasty in the minds of radical republicans.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Taxation, regulation and unfunded mandates definitely affect employment decisions. Employer provided medical care insurance benefit costs may look free or small to YOU but is a huge expense for an employer. As PPACA MANDATES are adding ever more "no out of pocket cost" items the premium rates soar, much of those costs have been "absorbed" by the employer, riasing THEIR labor costs but giving the employee no increase in take home pay.

    Costs Of Employer Insurance Plans Surge in 2011 - Kaiser Health News
    No one said insurance was free. It has never been free and has always been a burden for business. Premiums have been soring for decades. All the things you complain about have been happening long before Obama or any reform. Business and the wealthy pay less today than they have before, and they were doing better before. You merely misunderstand what is different today. Today they can more esaily leave workers behind. Until the rest of the world cathes up with us, they can use cheap labor. And until we also have UHC, places without such care attached to business will be cheaper. Taxes are but a small part of the equation and hardly a determining factor.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by Born Free View Post
    Then why did the luxury tax kill jobs? If taxes don't really effect their spending all that much? Just thought you might know.
    That's a popular theory. And you'll find a number of folks spouting that out. You'll also find others linking 100,000 of those jobs lost to the resession and some arguing 25,000 lost tot he tax. But, this was the rebuttal of the time:

    But Dennis Zimmerman, a public finance specialist at the Congressional Research Service, said the tax was not to blame for the decline in sales of expensive boats. The gulf war, saturation of the luxury-boat market and a reduction in disposable income for those who can afford expensive boats are more likely causes, he said.

    Luxury Tax On Boats Sinks Jobs, U.s. Revenue, Critics Say - Chicago Tribune

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Of course it will - anyone that says it will not has NO idea what they are talking about.
    Why should that be? Aren't commodities prices determined by supply and demand anymore? I don't think they are either. Why do you think they are not?
    Why has "free market" capitalism failed when it comes to commodities?
    Last edited by iguanaman; 08-04-12 at 04:33 PM.

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    Why should that be? Aren't commodities prices determined by supply and demand anymore? I don't think they are either. Why do you think they are not?
    Why has capitalism failed when it comes to commodities?
    END FED: Bernanke Admits QE Raises Stock Prices, Force Investors Into Other Assets--Commodities?

    END FED: Bernanke Admits QE Raises Stock Prices, Force Investors Into Other Assets--Commodities? - YouTube

    'The third question is why has the global demand for commodities increased? It's hard to believe that world output has changed enough in recent weeks to explain the rise in commodity prices. More likely, rumours of quantitative easing led to higher future expected output. This would raise future expected commodity prices, and (because of inter-temporal arbitrage) current commodity prices.'

    Economics: Monetary easing has raised expected aggregate demand


    Just look at ANY major market/commodity when rumours of QE3 come up...they shoot up; especially the more volatile ones like oil, gold, silver, etc..

    Others may shoot up as well - but I don't follow those very closely, so I do not know about them as well.


    BTW - I am not saying commodities need QE's to rise - obviously that is not true. But QE's will and have (imo) cause large rises in commodity prices.
    Last edited by DA60; 08-04-12 at 04:40 PM.

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    END FED: Bernanke Admits QE Raises Stock Prices, Force Investors Into Other Assets--Commodities?

    END FED: Bernanke Admits QE Raises Stock Prices, Force Investors Into Other Assets--Commodities? - YouTube

    'The third question is why has the global demand for commodities increased? It's hard to believe that world output has changed enough in recent weeks to explain the rise in commodity prices. More likely, rumours of quantitative easing led to higher future expected output. This would raise future expected commodity prices, and (because of inter-temporal arbitrage) current commodity prices.'

    Economics: Monetary easing has raised expected aggregate demand


    Just look at ANY major market/commodity when rumours of QE3 come up...they shoot up; especially the more volatile ones like oil, gold, silver, etc..

    Others may shoot up as well - but I don't follow those very closely, so I do not know about them as well.
    Yes yes...speculation caused spikes......which then subside.



    THE question of why commodity prices have been rising must be broken down into several components. First, is the increase merely nominal, or have real commodity prices also been rising? This is complicated by currency fluctuations, which may result in prices rising in some countries and falling in others. I'm going to assume that both real and nominal commodity prices have recently been increasing in most countries (say using a GDP-weighted set of exchange rates).

    The second question is whether the increases reflect supply or demand-side factors. If a wide variety of commodity prices increase at the same time, the most likely cause is higher demand. Rising world output might lead to an increase in commodity demand (relative to supply.) In contrast, supply-side problems are usually industry-specific.
    Economics: Monetary easing has raised expected aggregate demand

    And as I already showed, world-wide demand has been happening since 2003, the slope of ALL commodity increases has remained consistent since that point...long before QE.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by Gimmesometruth View Post
    Yes yes...speculation caused spikes......which then subside.
    Of course, every spike subsides once the source of the 'spike' is removed.

    When the effects of QE wears off - then the spike that was caused by them wears off as well.

    But there is more 'cheap' money flooding the economies then just QE's/LTRO's.

    All the massive government deficits most western countries run causes 'artificial' price rises in almost everything - certainly more then there would be without them.

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    Re: Jobless rate rises to 8.3 percent, hiring picks up but still falling short

    Quote Originally Posted by DA60 View Post
    Of course, every spike subsides once the source of the 'spike' is removed.

    When the effects of QE wears off - then the spike that was caused by them wears off as well.

    But there is more 'cheap' money flooding the economies then just QE's/LTRO's.

    All the massive government deficits most western countries run causes 'artificial' price rises in almost everything - certainly more then there would be without them.
    Any "spike" caused by QE in the commodity markets (and I have yet to see anyone show where they existed) was imaginary since the long term rise since 2003 still exists because of the factors already explained. The near linear rise as not been curved at the points in time when the QE's occurred. The long term trend has not changed. The QE's were not responsible then....or now.
    Quote Originally Posted by trouble13 View Post
    If you wanna know why Trumpsters are ignoring you its for the same reason you ignored the KKKs complaints about Obama.
    Quote Originally Posted by Moderate Right View Post
    When it comes down to it, all facts are cherry picked.
    Quote Originally Posted by Bodhisattva View Post
    He didn't say it didn't make sense. He said it is complete nonsense.

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