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Thread: Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at grocery store

  1. #21
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    Re: Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at grocery store

    Quote Originally Posted by Paschendale View Post
    Cars and alcohol don't kill people, either, but we restrict possession and use of them, too. It would be really nice if we could have an intelligent conversation over gun control, rather than reactionary ones where proponents of gun ownership rely on slogans to diffuse the discussion itself. There is no popular movement for mass disarmament, only reasonable restrictions, specifically to prevent violent incidents. The right and ability to protect oneself or one's home are not on the chopping block. Nor is the ability of citizens to keep weapons as a caution against tyranny. The issue is safety, and whether a little bit of regulation could go a long way to keeping us safe from violence. Not a lot of regulation going a little way. That would be unconstitutional. But the discussion must take place. The facts must be evaluated. If it turns out that restricting guns won't make us safer, than we shouldn't restrict them. But we at least have to address the issue in a rational manner, not with outrage.




    The difference, obviously, is that knives have a purpose beyond violence. Guns do not. They are weapons, with no use other than killing. This is an important distinction that makes evaluating guns different from evaluating other things. Crossbows, for example, have no use other than as weaponry. Baseball bats do. See the difference?
    When one realizes that people who want to mass kill other people will do so whether or not we have stringent gun laws, then maybe we'll understand that unduly restricting one's ability to carry firearms does nothing to increase safety in our country.

    Under any reasonably suggested proposed restriction on the purchase and carrying of firearms, nothing would have prevented the Batman debacle. On the other hand? As in this story, if there weren't gun-free zones and right-to-carry weren't so heavily restricted/forbidden in many states, honest citizenry would be much better protected. LEOs can never protect us from these nutjobs. But ordinary citizens? Yes.They.Can.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I would disagree somewhat. A knife is a deadly weapon every bit as much as a gun; a knife can kill very readily. When I was in LE we had many training sessions about knives, mainly to teach us to take them very seriously. A man can run 25 feet and stab you in the time it takes to draw a pistol and shoot him. Stab wounds are often fatal.

    The man had already cut or stabbed more than one person; he had already committed Attempted Murder. Shooting him is a reasonable response; he is fortunate that the armed citizen who stopped his rampage before it reached "national news body count level" desired not to kill him if it could be avoided. Had he pulled the trigger without warning it would have been a justifiable shoot no question.
    I don't think anyone would have second guessed, depending on how things went down. My statement was based on jamesrage reasoning. We don't get to decide who gets to live or die and that is what he was suggesting.

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    Re: Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at grocery store

    Quote Originally Posted by danarhea View Post
    I post this because, in light of the shootings in Aurora, Colorado, gun ownership once again is getting a bad rap from some people. So, for the umpteenth millionth time, I want to again say that it is not the guns that do harm. It's the wrong people getting them. Even with gun control, those who want to do evil with guns are still going to get access to them. So why not allow law abiding citizens to level the playing field with their own weapons? What good can owning guns do? This article should be the poster child for the answer to that question. Yes, we will always have monsterous douche bags around, but guns in the hands of good guys who respect guns for what they are, and who know how to use them properly, will always be a blessing. Yes, I still fiercely support the Second Amendment.

    Article is here.
    You are right, to an extent. Guns are tools. They are only a danger or an aid to the public depending on the persons who wield them. Guns serve primarily to accentuate the consequences of human conduct. A human that wants to commit a crime is ten times more effective with a gun. A human who wants to prevent a crime can do so ten times faster with a gun. And human mistakes have ten times as serious consequences when guns are involved. The point is that banning or promoting gun ownership does nothing to change the statistics of crime, heroism, or mistakes. It only aggravates or decreases the consequences.
    (avatar by Thomas Nast)

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    Re: Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at grocery store

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    When one realizes that people who want to mass kill other people will do so whether or not we have stringent gun laws, then maybe we'll understand that unduly restricting one's ability to carry firearms does nothing to increase safety in our country.

    Under any reasonably suggested proposed restriction on the purchase and carrying of firearms, nothing would have prevented the Batman debacle. On the other hand? As in this story, if there weren't gun-free zones and right-to-carry weren't so heavily restricted/forbidden in many states, honest citizenry would be much better protected. LEOs can never protect us from these nutjobs. But ordinary citizens? Yes.They.Can.
    Well said, and something my 14 yr old even understands. I don't ever talk politics with him, but when he says something 'political', I ensure he looks into both sides, for I don't want to raise a hack. He quite literally came to me today and said almost the same thing after reading one of his friends FB entries against guns...
    "nah i think the way cons want to turn this into a political issue is funny though" - Philly Boss

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    Re: Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at grocery store

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    I would disagree somewhat. A knife is a deadly weapon every bit as much as a gun; a knife can kill very readily. When I was in LE we had many training sessions about knives, mainly to teach us to take them very seriously. A man can run 25 feet and stab you in the time it takes to draw a pistol and shoot him. Stab wounds are often fatal.

    The man had already cut or stabbed more than one person; he had already committed Attempted Murder. Shooting him is a reasonable response; he is fortunate that the armed citizen who stopped his rampage before it reached "national news body count level" desired not to kill him if it could be avoided. Had he pulled the trigger without warning it would have been a justifiable shoot no question.
    Charge a gun and run from a knife has a lot of truth in it. A guy flailing a knife is extremely dangerous.

    Hats off to this guy who reacted the way you want someone with a loaded gun to react.

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    Re: Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at grocery store

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    Charge a gun and run from a knife has a lot of truth in it. A guy flailing a knife is extremely dangerous.

    Hats off to this guy who reacted the way you want someone with a loaded gun to react.
    I thought, "Huh! I never heard that before." So I Googled and came up with this:

    Rule No. 1: RUN. Get as far away from the individual as possible. The good thing about knives is they have limited reach.

    Rule No. 2: If you cannot run, put a stationary object between you and the attacker. Find a car, wall, large piece of furniture….something.

    Rule No. 3: If you cannot run and there is nothing to put in between, pick something up and start swinging. Try to even up the odds, find a stick, chair or a blunt object of some kind to make him think twice about getting close.

    Rule No. 4: If the previous rules are not applicable, then follow the principles of Clear, Close, Control and Capture. Clear all your vitals from the path of the blade. Close the distance by jamming yourself super tight against them, so the attacker cannot swing or stab with the blade again. Control the arm holding the knife as close to the hand as possible. Capture the weapon by any means necessary. That means biting, clawing , striking , spitting, hitting, smashing; whatever it takes to extract it away from the attacker.

    As a good experiment, give a person a marker and tell them they can mark you up as much as possible before you take it away. See what happens. It’s often a real eye opener. Have you considered how you would handle a knife attack without a gun?

    Read more: Rules for Knife Attack Defense -- Guns & Ammo
    There's a video at this link that shows the result of a knife slash on a piece of beef. Wow. Who'da thought?

    I took a "dirty street fighting" class when I was younger. It was good -- and I've never forgotten some of the stuff I learned. But it wasn't about weapons. I thought this was very interesting. And it's almost counter-intuitive. Which is why it's important for people to learn this kind of stuff before they ever need to know about this stuff.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at grocery store

    Let me interject another anecdote because that's fun:

    The other day a guy shot a door to door salesman for being on his property. When the salesman was on the ground, the man shot him in the head. "For effect."

    For. Effect.
    Last edited by Deuce; 07-27-12 at 10:29 PM.
    He touched her over her bra and underpants, she says, and guided her hand to touch him over his underwear
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    We’ll say what? Something like “nothing happened” ... Yeah, we might say something like that.

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    Re: Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at grocery store

    Deuce!! I don't get it!
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at grocery store

    Quote Originally Posted by Deuce View Post
    Let me interject another anecdote because that's fun:

    The other day a guy shot a door to door salesman for being on his property. When the salesman was on the ground, the man shot him in the head. "For effect."

    For. Effect.

    At this point in time, barring some explanation, I have no idea how what you just said (if true, I see no link to source) has anything to do with the topic under discussion. It would appear to simply be an attempt to add an appeal-to-emotion that is supposed to horrify people, but the post lacks any context to link it to what is being discussed.

    In other words... WTF dude?
    Last edited by Goshin; 07-27-12 at 11:00 PM.

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    Re: Gun carrying man ends stabbing spree at grocery store

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Deuce!! I don't get it!
    7 billion people on the planet. Even assuming 1 percent of people are just plain nuts, that totals to 70 million whack-a-doodles out there. That's almost the entire country of Turkey.
    Hail to the King baby!

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