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Thread: Muppets owner Lisa Henson severs ties with Chick-Fil-A over SSM

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    Re: Muppets owner Lisa Henson severs ties with Chick-Fil-A over SSM

    I think there's a huge difference here between opposing an "entire religion" and merely opposing a "certain belief of a religion." I don't think Chick-Fil-A is being opposed because it's leadership is Christian, but because it supports opposition to SSM. It is perfectly within the rights of Chick-Fil-A to oppose a right afforded to everyone else, but then it's also within other people's rights to oppose that effort to deny rights.
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    Re: Muppets owner Lisa Henson severs ties with Chick-Fil-A over SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    ChickFilA, on the other hand, doesn't fit that definition at all.
    Of course not, given that Chick-Fil-A IS NOT A PERSON, and thus can't feel any way (good or bad) towards a given group of people.

    Also, the definition of bigotry at hand is incomplete. The core of bigotry is exceptionalist causality (believing that cause and effect work one way for X group, and some other way for non-X groups)...this exceptionalism need not be expressed in directly negative terms...equivalent supremacisms (positive exceptionalisms) can be obviously bigoted while never making a negative statement.
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    Re: Muppets owner Lisa Henson severs ties with Chick-Fil-A over SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by TheNextEra View Post
    Are you saying religious dogma cannot be bigotry? It was held in many churches that interracial marriage should not be allowed. That is a stance that is considered bigoted today.
    Okay, let's calm down here. You are right. Religious dogma can most certainly be bigotry. Where I'm going with this is that people who choose to boycott ChickFilA because its CEO expressed a belief in family values and traditional marriage are intolerant of his right to have religious beliefs that are not intolerant in any way.

    Do I really think you're a bigot? No. But in this particular situation, I think you have a bigoted view of this guy's right to believe in the Bible. What's that about? How tolerant is that? You become what you accuse him of being? Yes? And if he did what you propose? If he said, "Our company doesn't sell to people who are in a SSM!!" Then he would be a bigot. But he doesn't say that. At all.
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    Re: Muppets owner Lisa Henson severs ties with Chick-Fil-A over SSM

    I would have no problem with Mr. Cathy donating money in HIS name, from HIS pay check to any organization he chooses. But he donates money in the name of CFA, from CFA profits to organizations that actively seek to deny American citizens equal rights.
    That means that CFA, not Mr. Cathy, is supporting this cause.

    The government (mayors etc.) have no legal standing to deny business licensing. Which is the way it should be.
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    Re: Muppets owner Lisa Henson severs ties with Chick-Fil-A over SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Okay, let's calm down here. You are right. Religious dogma can most certainly be bigotry. Where I'm going with this is that people who choose to boycott ChickFilA because its CEO expressed a belief in family values and traditional marriage are intolerant of his right to have religious beliefs that are not intolerant in any way.

    Do I really think you're a bigot? No. But in this particular situation, I think you have a bigoted view of this guy's right to believe in the Bible. What's that about? How tolerant is that? You become what you accuse him of being? Yes? And if he did what you propose? If he said, "Our company doesn't sell to people who are in a SSM!!" Then he would be a bigot. But he doesn't say that. At all.

    The CFA guy advocates for legalized discrimination against gays. That is bigotry.

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    Re: Muppets owner Lisa Henson severs ties with Chick-Fil-A over SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Okay, let's calm down here. You are right. Religious dogma can most certainly be bigotry. Where I'm going with this is that people who choose to boycott ChickFilA because its CEO expressed a belief in family values and traditional marriage are intolerant of his right to have religious beliefs that are not intolerant in any way.
    And yet again, I have to explain that he is speaking FOR the company, not as an individual.

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Do I really think you're a bigot? No. But in this particular situation, I think you have a bigoted view of this guy's right to believe in the Bible. What's that about? How tolerant is that? You become what you accuse him of being? Yes? And if he did what you propose? If he said, "Our company doesn't sell to people who are in a SSM!!" Then he would be a bigot. But he doesn't say that. At all.
    And yet again, if this person's belief was limited to just himself that would be different. However, he is speaking FOR the company that the COMPANY supports those values that marriage should be between a man and a woman and the company supports those that actively fight against SSM.

    That is not just an individual stating they believe something, that is someone saying their COMPANY bleieves in those values as well.
    Last edited by TheNextEra; 07-31-12 at 12:47 PM.

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    Re: Muppets owner Lisa Henson severs ties with Chick-Fil-A over SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by winston53660 View Post
    The CFA guy advocates for legalized discrimination against gays. That is bigotry.
    Well, I can almost see that point of view, Winston. Maybe I have to think about that. Not about his words, because nothing wrong with those -- and nothing intolerant about them -- but about where he puts the company's money. Good point.

    I wonder if we'd be as polarized on this issue if we found out a company donated money to, say, a ProLife group...?
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    Re: Muppets owner Lisa Henson severs ties with Chick-Fil-A over SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Okay, let's calm down here. You are right. Religious dogma can most certainly be bigotry. Where I'm going with this is that people who choose to boycott ChickFilA because its CEO expressed a belief in family values and traditional marriage are intolerant of his right to have religious beliefs that are not intolerant in any way.

    Do I really think you're a bigot? No. But in this particular situation, I think you have a bigoted view of this guy's right to believe in the Bible. What's that about? How tolerant is that? You become what you accuse him of being? Yes? And if he did what you propose? If he said, "Our company doesn't sell to people who are in a SSM!!" Then he would be a bigot. But he doesn't say that. At all.

    It is Mr Cathy's interpretation of his specific holy text, I suppose also the interpretation of the particular sect he belongs to. Others who profess Christianity do not hold the same views as Mr Cathy and his church. As to his views, while he may not personally advocate harm being brought to gays he has financially supported organisations that do advocate the repression and denigration of LGBT citizens. Soft bigotry, "I'm a nice guy, I would never put a gay into forced sex-change camp" but saying nothing about those who take his views that one step further is just as harmful to the victim. It is the equivalent of standing by while a crime is committed and trying to justify inaction by saying "Hey, it wasn't my place to step in"
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    Re: Muppets owner Lisa Henson severs ties with Chick-Fil-A over SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Okay, let's calm down here. You are right. Religious dogma can most certainly be bigotry. Where I'm going with this is that people who choose to boycott ChickFilA because its CEO expressed a belief in family values and traditional marriage are intolerant of his right to have religious beliefs that are not intolerant in any way.

    Do I really think you're a bigot? No. But in this particular situation, I think you have a bigoted view of this guy's right to believe in the Bible. What's that about? How tolerant is that? You become what you accuse him of being? Yes? And if he did what you propose? If he said, "Our company doesn't sell to people who are in a SSM!!" Then he would be a bigot. But he doesn't say that. At all.
    What if I said that your marriage was inviting God's Judgement on our nation?

    What if I said that people whose first marriage failed aren't as righteous as I am?

    What if I said that children of single parent households are "emotionally handicapped"?

    What if I gave money to organizations that wanted to outlaw your marriage?

    Would any of that make me intolerant?

    The audio of his interview can be found here:
    Chick-fil-A president: Gay marriage is 'inviting God's judgment on our nation' | The Daily Caller
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    Re: Muppets owner Lisa Henson severs ties with Chick-Fil-A over SSM

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Well, I can almost see that point of view, Winston. Maybe I have to think about that. Not about his words, because nothing wrong with those -- and nothing intolerant about them -- but about where he puts the company's money. Good point.

    I wonder if we'd be as polarized on this issue if we found out a company donated money to, say, a ProLife group...?

    You think that anti-abortion activists are not pushing boycotts of such companies? There is no we on this issue, there are multiple teams with many different views.
    “And I have no doubt that every new example will succeed, as every past one has done, in shewing that religion & Govt will both exist in greater purity, the less they are mixed together.”
    ~ James Madison, letter to Edward Livingston, July 10, 1822

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