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Thread: Colorado gun sales up after cinema killings

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    Re: Colorado gun sales up after cinema killings

    Quote Originally Posted by Jerry View Post
    As unstoppable as the lone-wolf terrorist, because they're virtually undetectable. Yes, long ago I accepted the fact that the world will never be without crime. Try as we may, we will never be able to prevent 100% of all crime. Sometimes the bad guy is very smart and knows how to play the system, and he get's through. When he does, the citizen needs to be ready.

    There is nothing which could have been don to prevent this crime, **** happens. What could have been don, what should have been don, is an armed theater audience returning fire to minimize the crime, hopefully killing the assailant in the process.

    We don't need your nanny-state socialist bull**** policies. We need a strong, vibrant, responsible gun-culture. This is what all evidence demonstrates lowers crime. Save you bull**** for some 3rd world warlord America hasn't killed yet.
    Have another beer and watch Rambo again, Jerry.

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    Re: Colorado gun sales up after cinema killings

    Quote Originally Posted by RadicalModerate View Post
    Just to be clear, I was differentiating between two lines of thought; I was addressing the info in the OP that guns sales were up. IMO that's an overreaction to the situation, and also think that if we're discussing ways that provide any possibility of reducing actions like Holmes', increasing armed citizens would be near the bottom of the list.

    I prefer a discussion of mental health over a discussion about arming citizens, but keep in mind I don't think just one thing is the problem.
    To me, the increase in gun sells seems like a fairly normal reaction to a perceived threat (not saying it's realistic, just that it's nothing abnormal).

    I don't think that increasing the arms that citizens owns, or decreasing the number of arms owned, has any effect whatsoever on the type of situation we're discussing.
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    Re: Colorado gun sales up after cinema killings

    I think the best we can do as a society is to see the objective warning signs and react to those. As another poster said in another thread, we have 300 million people in this country. If even .00001 of that number are capable of this kind of mayhem, that's 3,000 people at any given time. We can't have mental health professionals monitoring an entire society, offering help, categorizing them as high-risk, to zero in on a possible 3,000 people. **** happens. People go off the rails. As a society, we need to accept that.

    Having said that, there are behavior patterns that probably can be identified -- buying 6,000 rounds of ammunition on the internet is probably one of them. Buying multiple guns within a certain time period might be another. Taking flight lessons and not caring to learn how to land. (!) (I don't know, I'm just guessing.) Interviewing this guy and his friends to see what he said to whom when. Alerting all of us for danger signs that signal the actual behavior. But trying to predict who's likely to go nutz by labelling hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of people as being high risk? I think that's ridiculous.
    Last edited by MaggieD; 07-25-12 at 04:27 PM.
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    Re: Colorado gun sales up after cinema killings

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Because then you introduce the "anti-liberal" thought of personal responsibility; if a criminal is simply held responsible for their crime, then there is no "root cause" to launch massive liberal social programs to "fix". If a person is actually responsible for their own actions, then you can not justify rewarding INDIVIDUAL (educational, social and economic) failure with welfare, you must make it seem that SOCIETY has somehow that failed the individual, then you can "fix" it with a liberal social program.
    Eh, there are three main accepted influences in behavior: genetics, environment and the will. Many liberals, like myself, put a lot of emphasis on environment when it comes to behavior. We also see genetics as being a significant influence. However, we usually don't see the will as a significant influence since we usually see it as a primarily determined by genetics and environment. Because of that, you often see us focusing on society/genetics and what both have done to impact people's will.

    Conservatives, on the other hand, focus primarily on the will. Because of that, they often focus on personal responsibility and how people have chosen to use their own will rather than how other people may have influenced their choices.

    Now, instead of choosing to challenge the generally liberal idea that society has the primary impact on behavior and defend your belief that the will has the primary impact and that we should therefore choose to focus on personal responsibility rather than environment, you've chosen to act like a hackish fool and resort to insulting those who think differently than you by distorting their position. Fail.

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    Re: Colorado gun sales up after cinema killings

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Having said that, there are behavior patterns that probably can be identified -- buying 6,000 rounds of ammunition on the internet is probably one of them. Buying multiple guns within a certain time period might be another. (I don't know, I'm just guessing.) Interviewing this guy and his friends to see what he said to whom when. Alerting all of us for danger signs that signal the actual behavior. But trying to predict who's likely to go nutz by labelling hundreds of thousands (maybe millions) of people as being high risk? I think that's ridiculous.
    To the bolded: not the case. Some people who buy guns, also trade in guns frequently. Now, if you are saying that someone who buy 1000 units of the same or similar models at one time, you may have a point.
    "God is the name by which I designate all things which cross my path violently and recklessly, all things which alter my plans and intentions, and change the course of my life, for better or for worse."
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    Re: Colorado gun sales up after cinema killings

    canada.jpg

    ..........
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    Re: Colorado gun sales up after cinema killings

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    how could his words help anyone? what insight could he possibly provide?
    I don't know why you keep asking me the same questions when I've answered them already. If he sheds light on the causes, then we may be able to prevent them in the future. That's how solving problems work.

    and even if he does have something to say why should anyone listen?
    For our own safety...

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    Re: Colorado gun sales up after cinema killings

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post

    The problem is that you continue to state that argument without defending it and just assume that it's self-evident. The other problem is that your argument isn't defensible because in order for it to be accurate, his actions would have had to exist in a vacuum where the will is the only cause of behavior. His actions don't exist in such a place, so your statements are incorrect.
    No my statmeents are not incorrect. This guy can probably come up with a **** load of excuses as to why he did it. He was tired of controlled, he was angry at the governement, his girlfriend broke up with him, his puppy died, his favorite tv show was cancelled. There is no excuse he is going to put out there that millions of others have not dealt with as well. It is no excuse.
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    Re: Colorado gun sales up after cinema killings

    Quote Originally Posted by ThePlayDrive View Post
    I don't know why you keep asking me the same questions when I've answered them already. If he sheds light on the causes, then we may be able to prevent them in the future. That's how solving problems work.


    For our own safety...
    Removing him from this planet would be for our own safety. The problem that needs to be solved is this guys existence.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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    Re: Colorado gun sales up after cinema killings

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Removing him from this planet would be for our own safety. The problem that needs to be solved is this guys existence.
    and what if his acts were due to insanity?

    should we still lynch him?

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