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Thread: Wal-Mart opposes $6 billion Visa-MasterCard fee settlement

  1. #21
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    Re: Wal-Mart opposes $6 billion Visa-MasterCard fee settlement

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Walmart has cheaper prices because of volume buying.
    Partially. But that is not their main reason. Underpaying and supplying poor benefits to their workers allows them to cut prices. Primarily selling products made under harsh conditions in foreign countries allows them to cut their prices. Just to name a couple. There was a time for quite a while when a person could make a decent living in retail. A time when a mom and pop store could thrive. When American goods could be found on store shelves. Walmart (and stores like them) put employees in **** working conditions, minimum required by law and many times out side of that, and used that method and others to drop prices. And because idiot consumers care more about saving 8 cents than they do the American economy or American workers they do their shopping there. This forces other businesses to go under, or employ the same tactics at their establishments. Running the minimum number of employees (reducing jobs) and closing businesses (reducing jobs and consolidating wealth) and bringing the wages of hundreds of thousands of employees from a living wage to far from a living wage (reducing the number of tax payers and increasing the number of people on welfare). Furthermore the majority of products sold at walmart are foriegn made in sweat shops under horrid conditions which considering the volume is a key force behind the encouragement of these types of things to continue to happen around the world and also closing down factories and productions here in the US. (furthering the unemployment and dependancy on the government and reducing tax payers).

    unemployment, people paying taxes, employee wages, or the economy in general are not a concern for some and rather what matters is saving a few cents at the expense of our country, the american people and our economy. No sense in consumers helping drive our economy. It is far easier to just blame the government rather than accept or attempt to understand what is driving our economy down. If you think it makes more sesnse to get as many people on welfare and under government control than to encourage a change in consumer spending habits it is your choice but I strongly disagree with that logic.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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  2. #22
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    Re: Wal-Mart opposes $6 billion Visa-MasterCard fee settlement

    I agree with your points joko104, my favorite TV show is American Pickers, and part of the reason that the guys on the show pick the antique items they do (like old bicycles, motorcycles, industrial lighting, etc.) is that they hearken back to a time when products were made in America by people that took pride in their workmanship, and they made products that were built to last.

    The products being cranked out in China, as you say, are generally very low quality, low bid products designed to fill a temporary need and then be trashed. Unfortunately, we created the beast by demanding lower and lower prices. If you want quality, you can't have it at dirt cheap prices, it's a fact.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

  3. #23
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    Re: Wal-Mart opposes $6 billion Visa-MasterCard fee settlement

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Partially. But that is not their main reason. Underpaying and supplying poor benefits to their workers allows them to cut prices. Primarily selling products made under harsh conditions in foreign countries allows them to cut their prices. Just to name a couple. There was a time for quite a while when a person could make a decent living in retail. A time when a mom and pop store could thrive. When American goods could be found on store shelves. Walmart (and stores like them) put employees in **** working conditions, minimum required by law and many times out side of that, and used that method and others to drop prices. And because idiot consumers care more about saving 8 cents than they do the American economy or American workers they do their shopping there. This forces other businesses to go under, or employ the same tactics at their establishments. Running the minimum number of employees (reducing jobs) and closing businesses (reducing jobs and consolidating wealth) and bringing the wages of hundreds of thousands of employees from a living wage to far from a living wage (reducing the number of tax payers and increasing the number of people on welfare). Furthermore the majority of products sold at walmart are foriegn made in sweat shops under horrid conditions which considering the volume is a key force behind the encouragement of these types of things to continue to happen around the world and also closing down factories and productions here in the US. (furthering the unemployment and dependancy on the government and reducing tax payers).

    unemployment, people paying taxes, employee wages, or the economy in general are not a concern for some and rather what matters is saving a few cents at the expense of our country, the american people and our economy. No sense in consumers helping drive our economy. It is far easier to just blame the government rather than accept or attempt to understand what is driving our economy down. If you think it makes more sesnse to get as many people on welfare and under government control than to encourage a change in consumer spending habits it is your choice but I strongly disagree with that logic.
    I agree, and it's the Republican voting WalMart shopper that is the most guilty of supporting businesses and policies that run against their own interests. I've been guilty of it too until I stopped drinking the right wing talk radio kool aid.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

  4. #24
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    Re: Wal-Mart opposes $6 billion Visa-MasterCard fee settlement

    Quote Originally Posted by ChuckBerry View Post
    I agree with your points joko104, my favorite TV show is American Pickers, and part of the reason that the guys on the show pick the antique items they do (like old bicycles, motorcycles, industrial lighting, etc.) is that they hearken back to a time when products were made in America by people that took pride in their workmanship, and they made products that were built to last.

    The products being cranked out in China, as you say, are generally very low quality, low bid products designed to fill a temporary need and then be trashed. Unfortunately, we created the beast by demanding lower and lower prices. If you want quality, you can't have it at dirt cheap prices, it's a fact.

    I remember hearing a speaker one time explaining the the wealth tend actually spend less on most products because the pay more for quality, thus it lasts longer or a lifetime.

    An example is the particle board furniture WalMart sells (as do other big "discount" chains). It LOOKS ok. But it is thin veneer that will come apart over non-water resistance particle board that will permanent swell if getting wet, that easily comes loose and held together with plastic fashioners that will become brittle and break - ending up as trash by the road.

    For about twice the amount, a person could instead by full wood furniture that is assembled, and with metal fashioners and permanent glue that would last a lifetime.

    It is most people's practice to pick whatever is the lowest price on the shelf, regardless of quality. That is why PCs beat out Apple and is ONE of many reasons China factories beat out American factories.

    I TRY - when possible - to avoid Chinese and Asian market (except Japan) products and will pay significantly more. This ranges from clothing to tools to equipment. You want absolute top quality? Buy German made. Good quality? American. Crap? China and Indonesia.
    Last weekend I removed the Chinese made (most used) brand bilge pumps on our boats with Irish made ones. Unfortunately I had not done so sooner on a larger boat - leading to a call from the Marina that it has sunk dockside due to a heavy rain. That seemed impossible, since I had installed FIVE! bilge pumps. All FIVE Chinese made pumps failed. I had only bought Chinese because that is the only pumps any stored offered and they are just an unlikely to ever need.

    Lose to us for that Chinese junk? THOUSANDS of dollars in engine and electronics damage. Lose of our primary offshore boat for the whole season too. The non-Chinese replacement pumps cost about 25% more. And weren't easy to find (had to import-order them).

    How many Chinese made electronic toys people buy at Christmas are still working 6 months later? I bet less than half. Yet antique toys still tend to work - non-import toys.

  5. #25
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    Re: Wal-Mart opposes $6 billion Visa-MasterCard fee settlement

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    Partially. But that is not their main reason. Underpaying and supplying poor benefits to their workers allows them to cut prices. Primarily selling products made under harsh conditions in foreign countries allows them to cut their prices. Just to name a couple. There was a time for quite a while when a person could make a decent living in retail. A time when a mom and pop store could thrive. When American goods could be found on store shelves. Walmart (and stores like them) put employees in **** working conditions, minimum required by law and many times out side of that, and used that method and others to drop prices. And because idiot consumers care more about saving 8 cents than they do the American economy or American workers they do their shopping there. This forces other businesses to go under, or employ the same tactics at their establishments. Running the minimum number of employees (reducing jobs) and closing businesses (reducing jobs and consolidating wealth) and bringing the wages of hundreds of thousands of employees from a living wage to far from a living wage (reducing the number of tax payers and increasing the number of people on welfare). Furthermore the majority of products sold at walmart are foriegn made in sweat shops under horrid conditions which considering the volume is a key force behind the encouragement of these types of things to continue to happen around the world and also closing down factories and productions here in the US. (furthering the unemployment and dependancy on the government and reducing tax payers).

    unemployment, people paying taxes, employee wages, or the economy in general are not a concern for some and rather what matters is saving a few cents at the expense of our country, the american people and our economy. No sense in consumers helping drive our economy. It is far easier to just blame the government rather than accept or attempt to understand what is driving our economy down. If you think it makes more sesnse to get as many people on welfare and under government control than to encourage a change in consumer spending habits it is your choice but I strongly disagree with that logic.
    Walmart tends to pay about $10 an hour give or take.
    Provides benefits like insurance, 401k, etc.
    But then, I think that's pretty generous considering the level of work isn't all that high.

    Walmart sells brand name products, many of which would be sold in a locally owned store.
    Absent Walmart, do you really think locally owned businesses would provide greater pay and benefits, for low end retail workers?
    Hardly the case.

    If you were to ever research things, you'd find that the decline of production jobs in the U.S. is mostly because of firms replacing workers with automation and redesigning production lines for greater efficiency, reducing the need for more employees.

    But I suppose it's easier for you to believe what you do now.
    It requires no research.
    I was discovering that life just simply isn't fair and bask in the unsung glory of knowing that each obstacle overcome along the way only adds to the satisfaction in the end. Nothing great, after all, was ever accomplished by anyone sulking in his or her misery.
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  6. #26
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    Re: Wal-Mart opposes $6 billion Visa-MasterCard fee settlement

    Quote Originally Posted by Harry Guerrilla View Post
    Walmart tends to pay about $10 an hour give or take.
    Provides benefits like insurance, 401k, etc.
    But then, I think that's pretty generous considering the level of work isn't all that high.
    Oh really?

    Other critics have noted that in 2001, the average wage for a Walmart Sales Clerk was $8.23 per hour, or $13,861 a year, while the federal poverty line for a family of three was $14,630. Walmart founder Sam Walton once said, "I pay low wages. I can take advantage of that. We're going to be successful, but the basis is a very low-wage, low-benefit model of employment."

    The activist group Los Angeles Alliance for a New Economy (LAANE) said "in 2006 Walmart reports that full time hourly associates received, on average, $10.11 an hour." It further calculated that working 34 hours per week an employee earns $17,874 per year and claimed that is about twenty percent less than the average retail worker.

    Furthermore the insurance and 401K are generally given to full time employees which management is given bonuses for keeping employees under the full time mark so that they do not qualify.

    Here is some more info for you

    A 2002 survey by the state of Georgia's subsidized healthcare system, PeachCare, found that Walmart was the largest private employer of parents of children enrolled in its program; one quarter of the employees of Georgia Walmarts qualified to enroll their children in the federal subsidized healthcare system Medicaid.[48] A 2004 study at the University of California, Berkeley charges that Walmart's low wages and benefits are insufficient, and although decreasing the burden on the social safety net to some extent, California taxpayers still pay $86 million a year to Walmart employees

    and a bit more

    Walmart has also faced accusations involving poor working conditions of its employees. For example, a 2005 class action lawsuit in Missouri asserted approximately 160,000 to 200,000 people who were forced to work off-the-clock, were denied overtime pay, or were not allowed to take rest and lunch breaks.[51] In 2000, Walmart paid $50 million to settle a class-action suit that asserted that 69,000 current and former Walmart employees in Colorado had been forced to work off-the-clock.[51] The company has also faced similar lawsuits in other states, including Pennsylvania,[52] Oregon, and [53] Minnesota.[54] Class-action suits were also filed in 1995 on behalf of full-time Walmart pharmacists whose base salaries and working hours were reduced as sales declined, resulting in the pharmacists being treated like hourly employees.

    Walmart has been accused of allowing undocumented immigrants to work in its stores. In one case, federal investigators say Walmart executives knew that contractors were using undocumented immigrants as they had been helping the federal government with an investigation for the previous three years

    As of October 2005, Walmart's health insurance covered 44% or approximately 572,000 of its 1.6 million U.S. workers.[67] In comparison, Walmart rival and wholesaler Costco insures approximately 96% of its eligible workers, although Costco has been criticized by investors for its high labor costs

    Walmart spends an average of $3,500 per employee for health care, 27% less than the retail-industry average of $4,800.[68] When asked why so many Walmart workers choose to enroll in state health care plans instead of Walmart's own plan, Walmart CEO Lee Scott acknowledged that some states' benefits may be more generous than Walmart's own plan: "In some of our states, the public program may actually be a better value - with relatively high income limits to qualify, and low premiums

    Read all this and plenty more

    Criticism of Walmart - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    and that is just a quick wikipedia search. I can supply more from other sources.

    But you go ahead and run your mouth about how it is easier for me to believe what i do because it requires no research. You have absolutely no basis for that claim because you have no clue what I have researched now or any other time.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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    Re: Wal-Mart opposes $6 billion Visa-MasterCard fee settlement

    Nearly three-quarters of a million women work as "sales associates" in Wal-Mart stores. On average these women earn $6.10 per hour, or $12,688 per year if they are permitted to work full-time. This wage puts many of their families below the poverty level — half even qualify for federal assistance under the food stamp program.

    Women who make pants in El Salvador earn 15 cents for each pair; Wal-Mart sells these pants for $16.95 in its U.S. stores. Also, contractors in El Salvador force workers to take pregnancy tests.

    The Maine Department of Labor ordered Wal-Mart to pay the largest fine in state history for violating child labor laws. The Department of Labor discovered 1,436 child labor law infractions at twenty Wal-Mart chains.

    Lawsuits pertaining to Americans with Disabilities Act (ADA) violations have been filed in Missouri, Arizona, California, and Arkansas.

    In the video Behind the Labels: Garment Workers in U.S. Saipan, Wal-Mart is featured as one of the retailers which contract with "sweatshops" in Saipan for the manufacturing of garments sold in their stores.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
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    Re: Wal-Mart opposes $6 billion Visa-MasterCard fee settlement

    But none of that kind of stuff matters. WHat really matters is saving a few cents at the expense of the American public and the American economy.
    “Most people do not listen with the intent to understand; they listen with the intent to reply.”
    Stephen R. Covey


  10. #30
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