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Thread: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

  1. #41
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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    Yes.

    A semi-automatic can be defined by a weapon that reloads after firing one round with each trigger pull. A slow acting revolver is a semi-automatic. A Glock with a magazine is a semi-automatic. An M4 rifle is a semi-automatic.

    An automatic can be defined by a weapon that fires multiple rounds per trigger pull. A military grade machine gun will fire every round in the belt or magazine as long as the trigger is depressed (though it will jam up so the 3-5 round burst applies).

    A bolt action is neither. It is "moot." So is a musket.

    Incidentally, even our military M4s and M16A4s are both. They are semi-auto until you switch the "selector switch" to BURST. Both rifles then spit out three rounds per trigger pull. It is a waste of ammo since round 2 and 3 are off target, but it does create cover fire for troops on the move.


    But back to the Joker.....he would have been deadlier at close range like that with a glock pistol. His magazine reload would have been after 10 or 14 rounds depending on the model.
    Thanks for that info and I need a little time to think more about it.

    The Joker....so you're saying it could have been worse with a glock pistol? Thats hard to fathom, but it was a packed house and people were trapped. Anyway, he tried to join a shooting range club but failed, so I'm wondering where he did practice or if he practiced using a gun at all. Would he have had to have some training to know how to shoot the weapons he used? It's too bad he didn't shoot himself while he was learning to use a gun.

    The other thing I find interesting about Holmes is his choice of study in college and his interest in subjective reality of the mind vs reality. He must have convinced himself that what he was doing wasn't real or he else he couldn't tell the difference between subjective and objective reality anymore. I sometimes wonder if some of those violent video games aren't having that same effect on people.

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by MSgt View Post
    -- Therefore, it is up to the responsible citizen to protect himself and his fellow citizen. By the time the first cop appeared (1.5-2 minutes), he should have just had to collect witness statements and the dead criminal.
    I agree wholeheartedly with this but I also think in reality only those who have specifically trained or been under fire like Jeanne Assam in 2007 would return fire. I'd like to think more citizens would become involved but such incidents might be rare from my light research into them.

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Is the .22LR semi-auto 17rd rifle a rapid fire weapon?
    Yep, I've seen my dad bump fire that thing and it sounded like a tiny machine gun.

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    Here's the basic set up. All these exit doors are usually wired into the office, and sometimes up to the projectionist's booth, and sometimes even to a panel near where the head usher is situated, so that a light goes on when opened. It is expected when a movie ends, and so would not rate extra attention. But during a show, and for more than a few seconds, is when someone would be sent to check. The usual culprits are someone letting friends in the back. There is no need to disable the alert that the door is open. These are also not as the emergency exits we see at the back of a retail store, that are loudly alarmed.

    Virtually ever Cinema will have an alarm system for when it is truly shut down for the night. That would include a sensor on every door to begin with. So having it also as able to register just as "open" during normal hours is not a stretch.

    The easiest way to prop one open is such as a piece of wood. All these doors have the panic bar, which begins to engage once the door is closed to within about 1/2". The open alert is simply a pair of magnets at the top, which enable/disable a circuit. Had Holmes scoped it out first, say earlier in the week, he may have tested such, that is seeing if he could prop it open, and if anyone reacted after 5-10 minutes. Or, if he checked closer, most panic bars have a hole, in which you can insert an allen wrench, and once depressed in the "open" or "unlocked" position, then lock the bar open with a half-turn. It is still potentially a little problematic to open from the outside, as it closes flush, and there is no handle. But it would register as "closed" while also being unlocked.

    I suspect that the theater had the magnetic sensors on the doors, and a system which indicated that the door was open. That is more standard than not. And that they didn't notice, perhaps understaffed with the midnight showings, or not paying attention, etc.
    Hmm. I didn't know the exact technicals of those doors but that made a lot of sense, I know the fire marshall here had a crackdown on clubs locking off emergency doors to avoid cover dodgers, the club owners pretty much all said they would have to up security to watch the now open exits for the reasons of eliminating cover jumpers and also to make sure if there were heated arguments to insure someone wouldn't "backdoor" their way inside with a weapon they went to the car to retrieve. I immediately thought of that after finding out the cinema killer propped the exit at the theater.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Thanks for that info and I need a little time to think more about it.

    The Joker....so you're saying it could have been worse with a glock pistol? Thats hard to fathom, but it was a packed house and people were trapped.
    His lack of training makes holding a rifle (even a short M4) cumbersome. His swiveling about looking for targets to spray took time. A pistol is far easier to maneuver in tight spots and can fix on targets without turning your waist. A flick of the wrist is all that is needed to completely change the trajectory path to a different part of the room. In close quarters or room clearing, a pistol is always preferable with the rifle slung on your back (unless you are the back element coming in to reinforce.)

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Anyway, he tried to join a shooting range club but failed, so I'm wondering where he did practice or if he practiced using a gun at all. Would he have had to have some training to know how to shoot the weapons he used?
    Nope. Weapons are easy. They all function basically the same. I doubt he had a clue what the parts are called, how to drop distant targets, or even how to clean them. I'm sure such information is on the Internet or with any instruction book that may have come with the rifle. But any idiot can point, place on fire, and pull a trigger just as easily as anyone can pick up a knife and stab.


    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    The other thing I find interesting about Holmes is his choice of study in college and his interest in subjective reality of the mind vs reality. He must have convinced himself that what he was doing wasn't real or he else he couldn't tell the difference between subjective and objective reality anymore. I sometimes wonder if some of those violent video games aren't having that same effect on people.
    Personally, I think he was an overachiever. How many Chess Masters aren't exactly in tune with the rest of us? These kind of guys bake their brains.

    Video games are absolutely a contributer of sorts to aggression. The 80s brought us such hits as Pacman and Asteroids. School violence and senseless shooting sprees didn't start until video games started bringing gore and violence. Also, the rise of so called Gangsta Rap. Also, it was the 80s when Hollywood started turning out violent gore as a part f the mainstream entertainment. All of this contributes to how our kids behave. And don't you dare spank one of them under Clinton's America. Today, kids shoot up school and theaters. We have metal detectors in schools and guards on airplanes. All of this began from the 80s on. A person would have to be a fool to pretend that all our mainstream glory has nothing to do with it.

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    What designates a rifle as being assault (military grade) or not, realy, is the type of round it's designed to fire. I can buy a good .22 rifle and engage in sniping activities, even in a military setting. But a .22 is not an assault rifle, because, unlike, say, a dragunov sniper rifle, or even a ww2 era scoped carbine, it can only fire .22 rounds. They won't go through walls, doors, or body armor. At a decent range, they won't even go all the way though a body, generating the lethal exit wound. But it's PURPOSE is the same...long distance (relatively speaking), accurate firing ability.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    What designates a rifle as being assault (military grade) or not,.............
    A: Your position on gun control. Democrats typically see anything with a long barrel and a magazine as "military grade". Republicans don't use the term

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Eighty Deuce View Post
    A: Your position on gun control. Democrats typically see anything with a long barrel and a magazine as "military grade". Republicans don't use the term
    Difference between a 7.62 NATO round and a .308 hunting round is about 1/3mm and the NATO round uses a slightly thicker shell to accomodate a hotter grain load.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    So all semi automatics can fire at the same speed. Is that the only thing that makes them semi-automatic? If so could you group all semi-automatics into a category?
    The speed is 'how fast can you pull the trigger over and over and over'.

    Revolvers also fire at that speed, how fast can you pull the trigger over and over and over, and revolvers are not semi-auto.

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    What designates a rifle as being assault (military grade) or not....
    Saying 'military grade' is like saying 'space-age technology' or 'information-super-highway'.

    You just sound like an idiot when you say it.

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