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Thread: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Back to the main premise:

    One of my former coworkers posted a very thought provoking statement on facebook regarding the shooting. Prior to working with me at Rave Cinemas he worked for Cinemark for 10 years. He said that as a theater manager he'd probably spend a significant amount of time after the shooting blaming and questioning himself, wondering if there is anything he or his staff could have done to prevent something like this.

    That said: I wonder if Cinemark corporate will put any sort of grief counseling or other programs into place for the theater staff (or if they'll contribute to a victim relief fund).
    Surely such potential feelings of guilt will afflict any who had an operational function associated with the crime.

    Where it gets more dicey is where there may have been a protocol or procedure not followed, or recommended and dismissed, that then better allowed the attack.

    The theater is going to face lawsuits. Whereas they have basic security if one comes through the front, as in 'must have a ticket, must use ticket at checkpoint, must walk in well lit areas before gaining admission to darkened auditorium", the issue will be the level of security, if any, provided to minimize the ease to which such measures are circumvented. Like coming in through an emergency exit. Or an exit designated only for exit. Was the door wired to provide some alert that it was open, and in this case, propped open ? If so, then who was not monitoring such ? Or ignored such ? How about cameras outside the back doors, on a simple closed circuit ? Or was all this possible or available, but then nixed by a company VP because it was seen as a "low crime" area ?

    I am sure that the second-guessing is already in high gear.
    Last edited by Eighty Deuce; 07-24-12 at 01:55 PM.

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    I do wonder what theaters are going to address as far as their safety protocol goes. I had gone to see a movie that showed in the smallest theater, don't remember which one but they used the E.exits as primaries for but it led to the parking lot after the movie finished, that would necessitate that the alarm had to be disabled or that they had the door unlocked and it could open without the push bar. The only way this kid could have propped up the door to get out was if it remained unlocked for him to open it, had the push bar been necessary it would have triggered the alarm, it's tied to the lock and bar mechanism.

    I do wonder if not only theaters but other establishments will start to take those doors more seriously.
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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    all semi automatics can fire at the same speed. some have tubular magazines that limit the amount of ammunition they can hold. Most use detachable magazines which can allow the weapon to fire 20-30-40 rounds without reloading though some small pistols do not CURRENTLY have say 20 round magazines available for them. THe weapon the killer in Colorado used is an aftermarket magazine not sold by the makers of the various versions of the AR-15 (Armalite developed the AR-15, it was designed by Gene SToner over 50 years ago and Armalite was a division of Hughes Aircraft. The patent was sold to Colt Firearms but the patent has long expired and varous makers (often using the same parts subcontractors of competitors) market an AR-15. Those include, Colt, Bushmaster, Windham Firearms (the Old Bushmaster/Quality Parts contractor in Windham Maine) Armalite (the name was bought by a subsidiary of the Belgian Fabrique National which won the Military M16 contract for a short period of time) Smith and Wesson, Rock RIver Arms, Lewis Machine Tool, Remington, and DSA among others. THere are at least 20 different "Makers" or marketers of AR 15s that I have personally handled and/or fired.

    THe most popular 100 round magazine (there are not more than a couple IIRC) retails for over 250 dollars and I have seen maybe two in use in all the years I have shot. They are bulky, make the weapon hard to carry for sustained periods of time and are not nearly as reliable as the common military spec magazines such as the "MAGPUL" brand magazines which many competitive shooters use
    So all semi automatics can fire at the same speed. Is that the only thing that makes them semi-automatic? If so could you group all semi-automatics into a category?

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by dontworrybehappy View Post
    Would you consider a .22LR semi-auto 17rd rifle as an assault weapon? Because, according to your article on wiki, it had nothing to do with caliber. If the .22LR had a detachable magazine and folding stock, by definition, it's an assault weapon.

    You see how stupid this gets?
    Is the .22LR semi-auto 17rd rifle a rapid fire weapon?

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by tessaesque View Post
    Back to the main premise:

    One of my former coworkers posted a very thought provoking statement on facebook regarding the shooting. Prior to working with me at Rave Cinemas he worked for Cinemark for 10 years. He said that as a theater manager he'd probably spend a significant amount of time after the shooting blaming and questioning himself, wondering if there is anything he or his staff could have done to prevent something like this.

    That said: I wonder if Cinemark corporate will put any sort of grief counseling or other programs into place for the theater staff (or if they'll contribute to a victim relief fund).
    I read somewhere the theater companies are going to beef up their security. I wouldn't be surprised is some of the victim's families tried to sue the theaters. But I really don't think it was their fault.

    But do you think the movie shares in some of the blame. After all, Holmes thought he was the Joker.

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    The rate of fire ALONE does not make an "assault weapon", as all semi-automatic firearms are capable of fairly rapid fire (as fast as you can pull the trigger for each round). The distintions were largely cosmetic, stock/grip design, magazine capacity and threaded barrel for flash suppressor (or other attachments) for rifles. For pistols I beleive it was based on weight and having a heat shielded barrel. Essentially if it LOOKED dangerous it was illegal. I believe that was a silly law since you could basically change only the magazine capacity (or remove the threading from the barrel tip) and the SAME weapon became "legal".
    So if all semi-automatic firearms can rapid fire, could you put them into a single category or classification of weapons?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    Is the .22LR semi-auto 17rd rifle a rapid fire weapon?
    Moot, please do your homework before spouting off about things which you do not fully understand.

    A semi-auto can fire as rapid as you can pull the trigger. I can fire 17 rounds in 2.5 seconds. Is that rapid enough?
    So the question was, do you consider it an "assault rifle"?

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    I read somewhere the theater companies are going to beef up their security. I wouldn't be surprised is some of the victim's families tried to sue the theaters. But I really don't think it was their fault.

    But do you think the movie shares in some of the blame. After all, Holmes thought he was the Joker.
    I don't know that we can blame the movie anymore than we can blame Linkin Park and Marilyn Manson for Columbine.
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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by CHARMtheMEDIA View Post
    Using this unfortunate circumstance as a platform for gun control is ludicrous. Guns do not kill people, people kill people.
    Had the bombs in the booby-trapped apartment gone off, likely more people would have died from that than gunshots.
    Given the fact that I myself, being only slightly versed in science, can walk into a Home Depot and buy all the ingredients needed to build a deadly explosive, I would think if a deranged psycho is set out to kill people he will find a way.
    Take a look at this picture.. Each blue mark indicates an incident were a gun was used in home defense which resulted in the home owner possibly saving their own life. Now tell me... Would you have sacrificed all those lives for the 12 in Colorado?
    I am not meaning to be cold, but I am trying to keep things real.



    Source:

    Map Of Self Defense Stories Using Firearms | Guns Save Lives
    In this country we seem be reactionary's and respond after the fact, rather than prepare for what might happen. It wasn't always like that but thats the way it seems these days. The clamour for banning guns will soon die down, it always does until another tradgedy occurs and then it starts up again. Here is a map of all the gun massacres that have occured over the last thirty years in the US.

    MAP: 50 Mass Murders Across America in 30 Years | Mother Jones

    They are random and unpredictable and probably impossible to prepare against without taking away everyone's freedom in some way or another.

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    re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver - Thread 2 [W:1/52]

    Quote Originally Posted by CHARMtheMEDIA View Post
    Moot, please do your homework before spouting off about things which you do not fully understand.

    A semi-auto can fire as rapid as you can pull the trigger. I can fire 17 rounds in 2.5 seconds. Is that rapid enough?
    So the question was, do you consider it an "assault rifle"?

    Do you?
    Hasn't the distinction already been made between an assault rifle and assault weapons? The wiki link I posted says there is and I am not disputing that.

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