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Thread: Penn State sanctions: $60M, bowl ban

  1. #41
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    Re: Penn State sanctions: $60M, bowl ban

    Not so very long ago, I would have said this was overkill.

    But then, the rape apologists starting pouring out of the woodwork. "Oooh, you can't punish the program!" "But the football team had nothing to do with this!" Oh yes it did. Oh yes it freaking did. They had built a culture of enabling one of the single most despicable crimes that a human can commit. Meanwhile, their football program was thriving, not just culturally and financially as well. In short, it was built on the backs of these children.

    And NOW the crocodile tears start to flow? Puh-lease; where was this sympathy when the story first broke? Anyone wanna remind us of the pathetically self-absorbed reaction when the scandal first broke last fall? I could care less if Penn State wins another football game. Ever. Their fans are pathetic enablers and absolutely are getting what they deserve.
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    Re: Penn State sanctions: $60M, bowl ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    It appears that is your impression, however, when someone like Micheal Vick, a convicted felon, is lauded because he is doing what everyone else is required to in society then is cavalier in subsequent interviews it is hard to say that these football factories turn out the cream of society's crop.

    Incidentally, my NFL guys were friends and I would join them for charitable events. They were never required to make personal appearances or play sports for charity these guys were just a bunch of great people that wanted to give back to society for what they have been received so freely in their lives.
    I never liked Mike Vick and I still don't, but he did his time and paid his debt to society.

    This post hardly negates what I said though. For every "thug" in the NFL, there's 10 solid guys who keep their noses clean and put their souls out on the field for us on Sundays. This thread isn't even about the NFL though, so I don't even know why this is being brought up.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  3. #43
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    Re: Penn State sanctions: $60M, bowl ban

    I wonder how many of those advocating that the central Penn State administration is to blame would make the same accusations of the Catholic Church's coverups of THOUSANDS of such incidents.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Penn State sanctions: $60M, bowl ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I wonder how many of those advocating that the central Penn State administration is to blame would make the same accusations of the Catholic Church's coverups of THOUSANDS of such incidents.
    I most certainly would. At the heart of both issues is a cultural problem of institutional corruption where people find it easier to sweep things under the rug to protect the institution rather than do the right thing.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Penn State sanctions: $60M, bowl ban

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I most certainly would. At the heart of both issues is a cultural problem of institutional corruption.
    Sure. But you'd never advocate that they should be barred from having new converts or members join their ranks. You wouldn't even advocate banning them from conducting services. What's the difference here? The University Program shouldn't be punished. The people who played a role? Yes. But the entire school? They didn't know about Sandursky anymore than we did.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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    Re: Penn State sanctions: $60M, bowl ban

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I never liked Mike Vick and I still don't, but he did his time and paid his debt to society.

    This post hardly negates what I said though. For every "thug" in the NFL, there's 10 solid guys who keep their noses clean and put their souls out on the field for us on Sundays. This thread isn't even about the NFL though, so I don't even know why this is being brought up.
    The post was never meant to negate what you said, it emphasized YOUR misunderstanding of what I said. If you read the whole post you would see that I was friends with these people, accepted them into my life and I will add, stuck with them after their professional careers when many of the hero worshiping fans forgot who they were while these former players adjusted to life with injured and broken bodies and wallets to match.

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    Re: Penn State sanctions: $60M, bowl ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    Sure. But you'd never advocate that they should be barred from having new converts or members join their ranks. You wouldn't even advocate banning them from conducting services. What's the difference here? The University Program shouldn't be punished. The people who played a role? Yes. But the entire school? They didn't know about Sandursky anymore than we did.
    In both cases I'd argue for the institution to be punished as a whole, not simply the men who perpetrated the crimes. In the case of Penn State, anything less would be a slap on the wrist. This isn't one of those situations where a few guys went rogue and everyone else is guiltless. This has to do with a culture that's so messed up that it ends up making a football coach the most important person at an academic institution. The fact that you still have Paterno cultists up there whining about how he and his legacy are being unfairly persecuted just tells you how much they don't get it and how out-of-whack their perspective is.

    Let's not get it twisted, this is the worst thing to happen in the history of college sports, if not American sports, period. SMU got the death penalty for two years because they paid some of their athletes and changed some grades. The damage that was done here absolutely PALES in comparison to what happened at SMU, and in my opinion the NCAA merely slapped Penn State on the wrist given the magnitude of what happened.

    There's absolutely nothing I see here that discourages something like this from happening again. PSU will still bring in tons of revenue even with a ****ty team, they'll still fill stadiums, and they'll still have their wealthy donors covering their asses. So after I've heard arguments from all sides and have had time to reconsider, I've changed my position from "seems fair" this morning to "no way in hell is this even close to being adequate."
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: Penn State sanctions: $60M, bowl ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    The post was never meant to negate what you said, it emphasized YOUR misunderstanding of what I said. If you read the whole post you would see that I was friends with these people, accepted them into my life and I will add, stuck with them after their professional careers when many of the hero worshiping fans forgot who they were while these former players adjusted to life with injured and broken bodies and wallets to match.
    Fair enough. The National Felons League comment got me riled up a bit is all.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

  9. #49
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    Re: Penn State sanctions: $60M, bowl ban

    Quote Originally Posted by Hatuey View Post
    I wonder how many of those advocating that the central Penn State administration is to blame would make the same accusations of the Catholic Church's coverups of THOUSANDS of such incidents.
    I would.

    Both are despicable.
    "you're better off on Stormfront discussing how evil brown men are taking innocent white flowers." Infinite Chaos

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    Re: Penn State sanctions: $60M, bowl ban

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    In both cases I'd argue for the institution to be punished as a whole, not simply the men who perpetrated the crimes. In the case of Penn State, anything less would be a slap on the wrist. This isn't one of those situations where a few guys went rogue and everyone else is guiltless. This has to do with a culture that's so messed up that it ends up making a football coach the most important person at an academic institution. The fact that you still have Paterno cultists up there whining about how he and his legacy are being unfairly persecuted just tells you how much they don't get it and how out-of-whack their perspective is.

    Let's not get it twisted, this is the worst thing to happen in the history of college sports, if not American sports, period. SMU got the death penalty for two years because they paid some of their athletes and changed some grades. The damage that was done here absolutely PALES in comparison to what happened at SMU, and in my opinion the NCAA merely slapped Penn State on the wrist given the magnitude of what happened.

    There's absolutely nothing I see here that discourages something like this from happening again. PSU will still bring in tons of revenue even with a ****ty team, they'll still fill stadiums, and they'll still have their wealthy donors covering their asses. So after I've heard arguments from all sides and have had time to reconsider, I've changed my position from "seems fair" this morning to "no way in hell is this even close to being adequate."
    Yes and hitting the institution with a fine and banning all current sports administration members from NCAA sports would suffice. To continue to punish them 4 years from now for something their players in 2016 had nothing to do with is extreme.
    I refuse to accept the view that mankind is so tragically bound to the starless midnight of racism and war that the bright daybreak of peace and brotherhood can never become a reality. - MLK

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