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Thread: Super rich hold $32 trillion in offshore havens

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    Re: Super rich hold $32 trillion in offshore havens

    Quote Originally Posted by iguanaman View Post
    If they are torn it is between keeping the same greedy behavior and hold on to all the cash they can or have some faith in the Americans again and invest in their homeland. There will be no investment as long as Corporations continue to see the American consumer as hopelessly over their heads in debt, with the Govt. doing nothing to change it.
    Quote Originally Posted by grip View Post
    And they get that 22% ($32+ trillion), which is ONLY the cash from the other 99%.
    Read the thread you guys. Or hell, even the article in the OP. Just... read it.

    QFT:

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483, post #6
    First of all, these are global numbers- so nothing about "capitalism" can be inferred from the data.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket, post #7
    It applies to MORE than just the USA...... from the article
    Quote Originally Posted by beerftw, post #12
    problem is 32 trillion isnt for america,its worldwide across 139 developing nations.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-22-12 at 05:34 PM.

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    Re: Super rich hold $32 trillion in offshore havens

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    Your analysis is correct.

    Why do you believe it is that government spending ($5 trillion, so far!) has failed to get our economy moving forward again?

    Spending-stimulus advocates claim that Congress can "inject" new money into the economy, increasing demand and therefore production. This raises the obvious question: From where does the government acquire the money it pumps into the economy? Congress does not have a vault of money waiting to be distributed. Every dollar Congress injects into the economy must first be taxed or borrowed out of the economy. No new spending power is created. It is merely redistributed from one group of people to another.

    We both know Congress cannot create new purchasing power out of thin air. If it funds new spending with taxes, it is simply redistributing existing purchasing power from the private sector to the government sector (while decreasing incentives by the private sector to produce income and output).

    If Congress instead borrows the money from domestic investors, those investors will have that much less to invest or to spend in the private economy. If they borrow the money from foreigners, the balance of payments will adjust by equally raising net imports, leaving total demand and output unchanged. Every dollar Congress spends must first come from somewhere else.

    For example, many lawmakers claim that every $1 billion in highway stimulus can create 47,576 new construction jobs. But Congress must first borrow that $1 billion from the private economy, which will then lose at least as many jobs. Highway spending simply transfers jobs and income from one part of the economy to another. As Heritage Foundation economist Ronald Utt has explained, "The only way that $1 billion of new highway spending can create 47,576 new jobs is if the $1 billion appears out of nowhere as if it were manna from heaven."

    This statement has been confirmed by the Department of Transportation and the General Accounting Office (since renamed the Government Accountability Office), yet lawmakers continue to base policy on this economic fallacy.

    What the Democrats fail to understand and most conservatives have always understood is removing water from one end of a swimming pool (the economy) and pouring it in the other end will not raise the overall water level. Similarly, taking dollars from one part of the economy and distributing it to another part of the economy will not expand the economy.
    Except the water's not in the swimming pool -- it's sitting in 32 trillion buckets in some other country. In this case, the government wants to pour a few buckets back into the pool.

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    Re: Super rich hold $32 trillion in offshore havens

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    Except the water's not in the swimming pool -- it's sitting in 32 trillion buckets in some other country. In this case, the government wants to pour a few buckets back into the pool.
    Which government are you talking about? The $32 Trillion belongs to rich from 139 different countries.

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    Re: Super rich hold $32 trillion in offshore havens

    I think the debate here is more about what priorities are in place in a person's life. In America, John Adams wrote that in Man's pursuit of happiness, there has to be ambition and the conquering of the material world. And to me, considering that he was a forefather to The United States, it makes sense as to why these values are transferred to our culture.

    Economic growth at all times. Consumption. An individualistic perception of the world.

    The debate isn't between the money in the tax havens. The debate is between what exactly is one's purpose in life? Is it to accrue wealth and power at no matter the cost? Is it individual self maximization? Or does somebody have more empathy for the common man, and wants to help, even if that means there is less mastery of the material world? I like the idea of helping people to the right and left of me, with the understanding that I am to the right and left of somebody else.

    So honestly, I don't think this debate is going to go anywhere besides bickering. The true discussion is about our values and philosophies of life and perception in this world. That's the true debate.

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    Re: Super rich hold $32 trillion in offshore havens

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    Which government are you talking about? The $32 Trillion belongs to rich from 139 different countries.
    His post was clearly about American politics, as was my response, but the principle applies in general. That money is being sheltered, it isn't driving economic growth in any country, so it isn't in any swimming pool.

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    Re: Super rich hold $32 trillion in offshore havens

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post

    Except the water's not in the swimming pool -- it's sitting in 32 trillion buckets in some other country. In this case, the government wants to pour a few buckets back into the pool.
    Why is it sitting in 32 trillion buckets in some other country?

    There has to be a reason!

    Why are wealthy Americans afraid to bring this wealth back to the United States?

    Could their decisions have anything to do with Barack Obama's very foolish “tax the rich" policies?

    When property taxes go up in one state, what do the wealthy people do? They just move to a state with lower taxes.

    International finance works no differently.

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    Re: Super rich hold $32 trillion in offshore havens

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    Except the water's not in the swimming pool -- it's sitting in 32 trillion buckets in some other country. In this case, the government wants to pour a few buckets back into the pool.
    after claiming that those who filled most of the pool aren't giving their fair share of water

    anything that keeps this government from taking more money is good

    the US government needs to prove it can live on a diet for a century or so before it talks about spending more

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    Re: Super rich hold $32 trillion in offshore havens

    Quote Originally Posted by James Cessna View Post
    Why is it sitting in 32 trillion buckets in some other country?

    There has to be a reason!

    Why are wealthy Americans afraid to bring this wealth back to the United States?

    Could their decisions have anything to do with Barack Obama's very foolish “tax the rich" policies?

    When property taxes go up in one state, what do the wealthy people do? They just move to a state with lower taxes.

    International finance works no differently.
    There is a reason. Our policies -- tax and otherwise -- are insufficient. It's not just wealth that's pooling -- it's political influence as well. There is a political imbalance at the heart of the issue. This is about are more than not liking Obama.

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    Re: Super rich hold $32 trillion in offshore havens

    Quote Originally Posted by GhostlyJoe View Post
    His post was clearly about American politics, as was my response, but the principle applies in general. That money is being sheltered, it isn't driving economic growth in any country, so it isn't in any swimming pool.
    You referenced $32 Trillion dollars, so wheredja get that number from? You said "the" government wants to take some of it. Which government, if the money belongs to citizens of 139 different countries? Just admit you, like a bunch of the others, including the originator of this thread, aren't even reading the article you're commenting on.
    Last edited by Neomalthusian; 07-22-12 at 05:46 PM.

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    Re: Super rich hold $32 trillion in offshore havens

    If businesses won't give their employees a raise, then the government will have to do it...eliminate all federal income taxes for anyone earning less than, say, $100,000. Increased demand will make investments loosen up and have capital start flowing again. Bump the capital gains tax up to offset the revenue difference, disincentivize people somewhat from keeping money locked up in investments that add nothing to the economy.

    The way I see it, the rich have benefitted from the worker, and are literally keeping the profits of our labor locked up. In a fair system, that profit would be more evenly distributed as bonus for good work done. We wouldn't have an international jet set oligarch class that thumbs their nose at citizenship and and nationalism as old fashioned ideas. Civic pride and social cohesion demand that we care about those around us, we cannot all be independent operators merely using each other for personal gain.

    If being rich requires me to screw my brother over, then I am proud to remain poor. May God have mercy on the souls of those who think otherwise.
    The morality of abortion is not a religious belief, any more than the morality of slavery, apartheid, rape, larceny, murder or arson is a religious belief. These are norms of the natural law of mankind and can be legislated even in a completely religionless society.

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