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Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

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0bserver92 said:
I see you have never been to Alberta then.
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Hm, maybe not. I can't remember for certain. I've been in Quebec and Ontario, and whatever that province is just west of Ontario, I forget what you call it.

One of the things that really struck me was that the vast majority of Canadians I encountered were not only more polite than most Americans, but more cheerful.

There were exceptions sure, but on the whole I found most Canadians to be remarkably nice folks.
 
grip said:
I think the American culture is rife with the adoration of violence. It's in our love of guns, fascination with military, sports, TV, video games, movies, etc. On top of that we're creating a whole generation of spoiled brats that are digital idiots who can't differentiate fantasy from reality.
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Goshin quote: "That's harder to do in real life than you expected from playing video games, isn't it?" :mrgreen:
 
I have a bunch of Canadian relatives that are very family oriented, which I believe lends to a friendlier social standard and love of fellow human beings.
 
grip said:
I think the American culture is rife with the adoration of violence. It's in our love of guns, fascination with military, sports, TV, video games, movies, etc. On top of that we're creating a whole generation of spoiled brats that are digital idiots who can't differentiate fantasy from reality.
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That last has me a little concerned too. I guess we just have too much time on our hands, too much luxury, too much time to worry about how white our teeth are.

We don't know much about the shooter yet except that the vaguely fits a broad "loner" profile. Did he snap? Did he have a "history"? Was he a delusional megalomaniac who sat around playing video games and stoking his own rage because he couldn't cut it in grad school and blamed the world for this?

Guy who had drinks with him at a bar said he gave off no clues. And yet his mother knew it was her son. Much to learn yet.
 
haymarket said:
Why does this tend to happen here more than in other nations and with more frequency?

Spree killer - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
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This is abstract but also a possible analogy if you consider how the character of a nation determines the destiny of that nation similar to how the character of a person determines their path. We have a national irony in the juxtaposition of domestic and foreign policies. At home we have made historical strides towards Constitutional goals but across the pond we have been spearing the exact opposite direction. One example is how we kidnap people as a policy and ship them like pecans to unknown destinations where only God knows the cries of terror and pain.

The marked difference between us and Canada is foreign policy and military abuse. Quite a few of the shooters are under 25 which means the span of time on their cognitive existence is more than half steeped in a period of consistent war. Combine those images and practices with the problem of police killing unarmed suspects and it is not hard to see these guys are being raised in the college of violence.

An oversimplified version is this: they are imitating conflict solutions of what they see US authorities practicing as the most frequent and best choice without punitive results.

There is an additional component regarding our culture of ridicule framed to rob self esteem but that is secondary.
 
Furiounova said:
We have 4x the rate of Canada and England/Wales. Canada is the better example due to geography and culture. Why do we have quadruple rates?
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There is no honest answer which would not raise politically correct hackles.
 
Goshin said:
Goshin quote: "That's harder to do in real life than you expected from playing video games, isn't it?" :mrgreen:
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I believe that's why this guy gave up because the reality of what he'd done started to sink in and the consequences of what the police would do when he was cornered. I had a younger friend who loved gory, violent movies and I told him one day you'll encounter the real thing and it won't be so exciting. He did, it was not pleasant and he remembered what I told him about the real thing.
 
Goshin said:
Hm, maybe not. I can't remember for certain. I've been in Quebec and Ontario, and whatever that province is just west of Ontario, I forget what you call it.

One of the things that really struck me was that the vast majority of Canadians I encountered were not only more polite than most Americans, but more cheerful.

There were exceptions sure, but on the whole I found most Canadians to be remarkably nice folks.
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It's called Manitoba, you managed to go to two of the most Liberal provinces Quebec and Manitoba. They both strongly support the NDP which is our social democratic party.
 
nota bene said:
That last has me a little concerned too. I guess we just have too much time on our hands, too much luxury, too much time to worry about how white our teeth are.

We don't know much about the shooter yet except that the vaguely fits a broad "loner" profile. Did he snap? Did he have a "history"? Was he a delusional megalomaniac who sat around playing video games and stoking his own rage because he couldn't cut it in grad school and blamed the world for this?

Guy who had drinks with him at a bar said he gave off no clues. And yet his mother knew it was her son. Much to learn yet.
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The world inside his head was messed probably due to some of what I said and possibly chemical imbalances. You don't want to know what was in his mind to make someone do that because it's literally unbearable to be that insane. I pity such an unfortunate soul who's driven to cause such horror.
 
Goshin said:
There have been mass shootings in many other modernized Western nations, most recently a terrible one in Norway, for instance. Yes, it is more frequent here.... why? That's a complex question with a complex answer, in which many factors are at work: our societal glorification of violence and violent entertainment, our "machismo", our stimatization of mental illness and lack of resources to treat same, our huge and very diverse population (we have states more populous than most European nations, and typically far more diverse culturally and ethnically), the specific pressures and stresses to which we subject ourselves (ie most European nations have a slower-paced lifestyle where they are more casual about deadlines, whereas being 5minutes late for work in the US can get you fired, as a minor example)

There are no simple or one-dimensional solutions to psycho rampages.
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You are dead on with a lot of this. But what compounds the culture that glorifies violence is we have created a culture full of anger, violence, disrespect, cockiness, selfishness, and hate. The vast majority (and by a very large amount) of Americans are full of hate. We see it almost all day everyday. People walk around proclaiming their hatred for America. In our very own country people hate it. Those that don't hate America hate those who do. We have people here that hate black people. Then we have those who hate those people. We have those who hate gays then we have the gay rights supporters who hate everyone who disagrees with them. We have groups of women who just hate men. A lot of people here hate muslims and any one middle eastern decent. Almost the entire liberal movement hates white people and christians. Christians hating everyone who isnt christian. We have people who hate organized society, and we have people who hate people who support anarchy. People hate the police. Most black people are taught to hate white people and white people are taught to be scared of black people. THe rich hate the poor and the poor hate the rich. Politicians are laughing at us all they spend billions of dolllars that could be far better used pitting us against each other making the left hate the right and the right hate the left. The hate in this country is astounding. Even those who oppose hate only oppose it for certain groups that have been historically mistreated and those groups who oppose hate, generally hate the groups and people who havent been historically mistreated. This list can go on forever.

And what makes this hate even worse is we all believe we are right. We all believe our hatred is justified. We believe the rest the nation is wrong. Americans are full of hate and cocky beyond belief. We are individually so cocky that respect is a rarity. Even people we dont hate seem to get no respect. Elders and authority figures are the most disrespected people in this country and very few care.

When you take the massive amount of hate the people of this country have, the anger for no damn reason, the cockiness, the attitudes, the disrespect for each other and lets not forget all the self entitlement compounding with the over bearing sense of you have to succeed and you have to do it now because we have no patience I dont see how things like this happening come as a surprise to anyone. These events are occurring more and more frequently because the above things in this country are getting worse. These events are not going to stop. They are going to increase. Things are going to just keep getting worse and worse. Our nation has absulutely no sense of community any longer. No one gives a **** about anyone other than themselves, well very few do, and most of those who do are usually pretending for their own selfish interests.
 
grip said:
I think the American culture is rife with the adoration of violence. It's in our love of guns, fascination with military, sports, TV, video games, movies, etc. On top of that we're creating a whole generation of spoiled brats that are digital idiots who can't differentiate fantasy from reality.
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Canada has the same video games/movies, etc so I'm not sure how that plays out.
 
apdst said:
We have a differnt demographic than those countries.
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I'd be interesting in reading the demographic differences between the US and Canada. What source did you use?
 
muciti said:
You are dead on with a lot of this. But what compounds the culture that glorifies violence is we have created a culture full of anger, violence, disrespect, cockiness, selfishness, and hate. The vast majority (and by a very large amount) of Americans are full of hate. We see it almost all day everyday. People walk around proclaiming their hatred for America. In our very own country people hate it. Those that don't hate America hate those who do. We have people here that hate black people. Then we have those who hate those people. We have those who hate gays then we have the gay rights supporters who hate everyone who disagrees with them. We have groups of women who just hate men. A lot of people here hate muslims and any one middle eastern decent. Almost the entire liberal movement hates white people and christians. Christians hating everyone who isnt christian. We have people who hate organized society, and we have people who hate people who support anarchy. People hate the police. Most black people are taught to hate white people and white people are taught to be scared of black people. THe rich hate the poor and the poor hate the rich. Politicians are laughing at us all they spend billions of dolllars that could be far better used pitting us against each other making the left hate the right and the right hate the left. The hate in this country is astounding. Even those who oppose hate only oppose it for certain groups that have been historically mistreated and those groups who oppose hate, generally hate the groups and people who havent been historically mistreated. This list can go on forever.

And what makes this hate even worse is we all believe we are right. We all believe our hatred is justified. We believe the rest the nation is wrong. Americans are full of hate and cocky beyond belief. We are individually so cocky that respect is a rarity. Even people we dont hate seem to get no respect. Elders and authority figures are the most disrespected people in this country and very few care.

When you take the massive amount of hate the people of this country have, the anger for no damn reason, the cockiness, the attitudes, the disrespect for each other and lets not forget all the self entitlement compounding with the over bearing sense of you have to succeed and you have to do it now because we have no patience I dont see how things like this happening come as a surprise to anyone. These events are occurring more and more frequently because the above things in this country are getting worse. These events are not going to stop. They are going to increase. Things are going to just keep getting worse and worse. Our nation has absulutely no sense of community any longer. No one gives a **** about anyone other than themselves, well very few do, and most of those who do are usually pretending for their own selfish interests.
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Some of what you say is true, but you go too far. There are people who care very much for others, who are respectful and tolerant of differences, and who try to make a difference. And they come from all backgrounds and philosophies. Increasingly, it seems to me too, the world is growing uglier...but that doesn't mean that there is not beauty and goodness and kindness to be found among us all.
 
Furiounova said:
We have 4x the rate of Canada and England/Wales. Canada is the better example due to geography and culture. Why do we have quadruple rates?
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Meathead said:
There is no honest answer which would not raise politically correct hackles.
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apdst said:
We have a different demographic than those countries.
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It's unfortunate that we can't have the discussion we're skipping around, acknowledging certain 800 lb. gorillas might go a long way towards our growth as a united people. We can't have the conversations we need to have, though. Politically incorrect.

Comparing the U.S. to any other country is like comparing apples to oranges (or apples to orangutans). No other country has anything quite like our history, our culture, or our demographics. Just saying.

Something else one of my Canadian friends noted after spending most of the winter here in the States: “You guys are really trained to hate yourselves, you know that?” She was right, pride in Country and our fellow citizens isn't a subject we hear a lot about.
 
nota bene said:
Some of what you say is true, but you go too far. There are people who care very much for others, who are respectful and tolerant of differences, and who try to make a difference. And they come from all backgrounds and philosophies. Increasingly, it seems to me too, the world is growing uglier...but that doesn't mean that there is not beauty and goodness and kindness to be found among us all.
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i dont mean to imply everyone. but by far the vast majority of people in this country hate others. there are plenty of people who are willing to help people sure, but the majority of them are selective of who they will help. Some people will only help christians, or only help minorities, or only help children ect Very few people are tolerant even when they think they are. hell, very few people understand what being tolerant or compassionate really is.
 
Thunder said:
yes, we have a higher poverty rate.
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Most Americans dont know what poverty is. Our poverty rate is high because our standard for poverty is high. Very few Americans live in the conditions people in poverty in other countries do. Very few Americans have no means of getting a meal on a given day.
 
muciti said:
Most Americans dont know what poverty is. Our poverty rate is high because our standard for poverty is high. Very few Americans live in the conditions people in poverty in other countries do. Very few Americans have no means of getting a meal on a given day.
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Poverty is subjective by country. Our standards of poverty is nowhere close to most of the rest of the World - which isn't surprising given our ignorance of the World. When someone only knows about America and our standard of living, they have only that to compare it to. It's silly to think someone would compare our poverty to that of a Third World Country.
 
GJ Flash said:
It's unfortunate that we can't have the discussion we're skipping around, acknowledging certain 800 lb. gorillas might go a long way towards our growth as a united people. We can't have the conversations we need to have, though. Politically incorrect.

Comparing the U.S. to any other country is like comparing apples to oranges (or apples to orangutans). No other country has anything quite like our history, our culture, or our demographics. Just saying.

Something else one of my Canadian friends noted after spending most of the winter here in the States: “You guys are really trained to hate yourselves, you know that?” She was right, pride in Country and our fellow citizens isn't a subject we hear a lot about.
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Huh? Since when? Our last president built his entire presidency around trying to get people to "love their kuntreh!" And how many Far-Right idiots have whined that Obama "hates America"?
 
muciti said:
i dont mean to imply everyone. but by far the vast majority of people in this country hate others. there are plenty of people who are willing to help people sure, but the majority of them are selective of who they will help. Some people will only help christians, or only help minorities, or only help children ect Very few people are tolerant even when they think they are. hell, very few people understand what being tolerant or compassionate really is.
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I think you are overstating it, but you do have a point. When I was a kid, "courtesy" was very very important in social settings; now it has been replaced by "attitude". Rudeness is mistaken for strength, arrogance for ability, selfishness for ambition, and pride no longer needs to be based on actual accomplishments. Sometimes our society does seem like a "death of a thousand tiny cuts" and there are plenty of opportunities for haters to find an excuse for their hatred.

Even so, there are still lots of good people out there. They just seem to be few because the bad ones are so loud and so visible.
 
Thunder said:
what does our ethnic make-up have to do with our crime-rate?

nothing at all, unless one is going to argue that brown & black people are genetically prone to commit crime.
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His point, if i am not mistaken, is that when you have a more culturally diverse grouping you tend to higher crime because of the diversity. Different cultural backgrounds clash. Groups may see another as weaker. Groups may target other groups. This can cause additional crime and this can cause additional hate which further causes more crime. Groups may feel unacccepted. Groups may feel threatened. The list goes on and on.
 
muciti said:
Most Americans dont know what poverty is. Our poverty rate is high because our standard for poverty is high. Very few Americans live in the conditions people in poverty in other countries do. Very few Americans have no means of getting a meal on a given day.
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Sure, an American on welfare and food stamps and living in subsidized housing is rich compared to a Kenyan back-woods village farmer... but that isn't relevant to the effect of poverty on our culture in terms of crime.

Poverty is relative to the nation's norms, and to the gap between the haves and have-nots, which is growing. Half the country looks at the other half with envy today, because of that gap. That contributes to hate and coveting what others in your culture have that you do not.
 
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