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Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

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Risky Thicket said:
Ahhh, but he was firing indiscriminately. Anyone he hit was a bingo for him. I doubt seriously that he aimed at anyone. There wasn't any spray and pray. It was all spray for the bastard.
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Actually, I'm watching an ABC special on it right now. They are showing some of the victims, one girl was shot in the leg, he found her when she screamed out and shot her dead. I think he was mixing indiscriminate fire in until he could zero in on specific targets, seems like he was more going on random than anything.
 
TurtleDude said:
or the case where two mopes tried to hold up a bar that was having a bachelor party for a NYC detective-this was parodied in Chuck Norris's Code of Silence or something like that
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Or the guy who intentionally tried to rob a gun store frequented by off duty police. Psychics could have taken a break that day, outcome not in doubt.:lamo
 
GJ Flash said:
It would be a stupid anyone to run in and start shooting, period. A properly trained marksman knows where his rounds are going. And why.

Had your friend been at the theater, armed, what is to stop him from using his weapon to defend himself? I'm less than thrilled with the prospect too, I would prefer it if only qualified people carried handguns. In places like Chicago and Detroit and L.A. the gangs have made that possibility unlikely though, either now or in the foreseeable future.

It's truly unfortunate that you live in an area with so many irresponsible gun owners. I would move.
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properly trained marksman or not you can not guarentee that a stray bullet will not hit an innocent in a situation like that. Too many factors at play to be able to say outright that a marksman would of been able to end the situation safely.
 
Mya said:
I read this online and I think it's spot on:

"The proliferation of guns, the lack of access to mental health services, a pervasive sense of isolation, glorification of violence in our society all create conditions that lead to such tragedies."



All the rest is meaningless and there is the answer
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people who try to whine about guns are idiots on this matter. bombs are highly illegal in the USA and this guy boobytrapped his apartment. Since our war on drugs does not keep even casual pot smokers from buying weed, how are we going to stop a determined premeditated mass murderer from getting a gun? and btw the US Government "loses" 15,000 M-16 real assault rifles every year from federal arsenals. POlice departments lose thousands of guns a year too

I don't know if an armed citizen or 5 could have stopped this but I know when the only person armed is the killer, only he decides when he has killed "enough" people
 
Higgins86 said:
properly trained marksman or not you can not guarentee that a stray bullet will not hit an innocent in a situation like that. Too many factors at play to be able to say outright that a marksman would of been able to end the situation safely.
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this is true

but as I noted above

armed citizens might not have stopped this

unarmed victims clearly DID NOT
 
TurtleDude said:
I don't know if an armed citizen or 5 could have stopped this but I know when the only person armed is the killer, only he decides when he has killed "enough" people
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Good lord! Five different people shooting in a dark theater? Everyone shooting at anyone holding a gun? Can you not imagine how much worse that could have been?

Your last line doesn't even make sense to me. His ammo supply would have likely determined how many people he would kill. His actions indicate that he decided before he even started shooting that he was going to kill as many people as possible.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Or the guy who intentionally tried to rob a gun store frequented by off duty police. Psychics could have taken a break that day, outcome not in doubt.:lamo
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22 years ago, the local target range (this time of the year) was past closing time but the owner was cashing out while four regulars (including me) were practicing for the "AREA 5" USPSA/IPSC regionals the next weekend. so about 10, three guys in LEATHER DUSTERS come up into the store-security camera showed a running car outside. so the owner merely flipped on the microphone to the range and said-WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU GUYS

one mope was by the front door, another by the rear door and the third guy was walking up to the register when the four of us sort of walked in I came in one range door, another guy-a local cop out of uniform came in the side door with a 12G shotgun, the third guy went outside and waited around the corner lined up on the driver and the last guy came in through the back door from another office.

so the three mopes asked where the local bar was and left

the local constabulary popped them a few hundred yards down the road

yeah they had guns
 
CriticalThought said:
Good lord! Five different people shooting in a dark theater? Everyone shooting at anyone holding a gun? Can you not imagine how much worse that could have been?

Your last line doesn't even make sense to me. His ammo supply would have likely determined how many people he would kill. His actions indicate that he decided before he even started shooting that he was going to kill as many people as possible.
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Uh I said I don't know

five guys like me-or five average gun owners

so many variables but it was about as bad as it could be (worse would have been a guy who really knows how to shoot)

when a guy wants to kill as many as possible the only thing that stops him is him or someone shooting him
 
20-20 tonight with Diane Sawyer was very touching. Not political at all, just talking about the shooting. Hey midnightrider, was that interview with that girls mom touching or what? I was crying in my plate of food.
 
TurtleDude said:
22 years ago, the local target range (this time of the year) was past closing time but the owner was cashing out while four regulars (including me) were practicing for the "AREA 5" USPSA/IPSC regionals the next weekend. so about 10, three guys in LEATHER DUSTERS come up into the store-security camera showed a running car outside. so the owner merely flipped on the microphone to the range and said-WHAT CAN I DO FOR YOU GUYS

one mope was by the front door, another by the rear door and the third guy was walking up to the register when the four of us sort of walked in I came in one range door, another guy-a local cop out of uniform came in the side door with a 12G shotgun, the third guy went outside and waited around the corner lined up on the driver and the last guy came in through the back door from another office.

so the three mopes asked where the local bar was and left

the local constabulary popped them a few hundred yards down the road

yeah they had guns
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I swear, tactical fails like those are just unforgiveable. Tip for criminals, if there is a gun anywhere in the name, the owner and clients are probably armed.
 
TurtleDude said:
this is true

but as I noted above

armed citizens might not have stopped this

unarmed victims clearly DID NOT
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but Turtle when does it stop? Should I start training my son how to use a semi-auto and then when hes 6-7 send him to school armed just in case **** goes down? Do I arm myself for Church? Do I arm myself to go out to the bar with my freinds? I dont think that as a soceity we are capable to continue along those kind of rules. From what I gather your a good shot, your respect guns and so do your family but you are in a minority! Unless we can starting teaching guns in School I do not see how it will work!
 
dontworrybehappy said:
20-20 tonight with Diane Sawyer was very touching. Not political at all, just talking about the shooting. Hey midnightrider, was that interview with that girls mom touching or what? I was crying in my plate of food.
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Yeah, heartbreaking. Can't believe how many people one sick, twisted, subhuman piece of garbage can hurt.
 
TurtleDude said:
when a guy wants to kill as many as possible the only thing that stops him is him or someone shooting him
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Agreed. Of course that has nothing to do with gun policy. If more people had guns in the theater it could have just as likely been worse than better. What would have mattered wouldn't have been the number of guns but the person who had a gun. If every person in that theater was armed but an idiot at using a gun then we can be pretty certain that it would not have been a better situation. Simply owning a gun doesn't make someone qualified to use it.
 
LaMidRighter said:
I swear, tactical fails like those are just unforgiveable. Tip for criminals, if there is a gun anywhere in the name, the owner and clients are probably armed.
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and when there are four guys on the range blazing away while running between barricades, doing speed loads or blasting pepper poppers with a 10 shot tricked out combat shotgun chances are they have you outgunned
 
CriticalThought said:
Agreed. Of course that has nothing to do with gun policy. If more people had guns in the theater it could have just as likely been worse than better. What would have mattered wouldn't have been the number of guns but the person who had a gun. If every person in that theater was armed but an idiot at using a gun then we can be pretty certain that it would not have been a better situation. Simply owning a gun doesn't make someone qualified to use it.
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we don't have any disagreement-I am a huge advocate for people getting well trained by good trainers-its one of my other professions!
 
Higgins86 said:
but Turtle when does it stop? Should I start training my son how to use a semi-auto and then when hes 6-7 send him to school armed just in case **** goes down? Do I arm myself for Church? Do I arm myself to go out to the bar with my freinds? I dont think that as a soceity we are capable to continue along those kind of rules. From what I gather your a good shot, your respect guns and so do your family but you are in a minority! Unless we can starting teaching guns in School I do not see how it will work!
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I'm not in the same league as TD when it comes to firearms but can handle myself just fine. It's not the guns, it's the disrespect for human life that's becoming a problem. For instance, I don't carry as much as some on this forum but still more than many people, I don't do so because I like having a gun by my side but rather because I don't ever want to regret not having it. It doesn't really matter what the weapon of choice is when the intent is to kill.
 
TurtleDude said:
we don't have any disagreement-I am a huge advocate for people getting well trained by good trainers-its one of my other professions!
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I doubt you have trained anyone to react to this particular kind of situation. But I'm glad we could find at least one area where we could agree.
 
TurtleDude said:
people who try to whine about guns are idiots on this matter.
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May be they are, may be they are not. May be they have a point or not.


But to be legally allowed to purchased 6,000 rounds of ammunition online , like he did?... well.... doesn't seem right to me!
 
Higgins86 said:
but Turtle when does it stop? Should I start training my son how to use a semi-auto and then when hes 6-7 send him to school armed just in case **** goes down? Do I arm myself for Church? Do I arm myself to go out to the bar with my freinds? I dont think that as a soceity we are capable to continue along those kind of rules. From what I gather your a good shot, your respect guns and so do your family but you are in a minority! Unless we can starting teaching guns in School I do not see how it will work!
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well as a free citizen that is something that only you can answer for yourself. now if we ever were to cross paths I'd spend a couple hours getting information about your home, its layout, your family members, their skills, personalities etc and I would watch you shoot

My kid started shooting a 22 rifle when he was 7 and a small 22 pistol not much after that. a shotgun at 11 because he is small-the rule is 80 pounds before they shoot a shotgun

he's had 5-6 8 hour training sessions at a top tactical training academy that involve shoot/no shoot house clearing drills etc. He's shot in 19 or so pistol matches and about the same number of sporting clays tournaments. He's also a several time national medalist in another shooting sport and earned his TKD black belt a year and half ago.

I know what his capabilities are and what he can handle. I can never make that judgment for someone I don't know
 
LaMidRighter said:
I'm not in the same league as TD when it comes to firearms but can handle myself just fine. It's not the guns, it's the disrespect for human life that's becoming a problem. For instance, I don't carry as much as some on this forum but still more than many people, I don't do so because I like having a gun by my side but rather because I don't ever want to regret not having it. It doesn't really matter what the weapon of choice is when the intent is to kill.
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but citizens of the USA should not have to carry weapons to go watch a film in the cinema with their family. You have the right to carry a firearm but it should not mean death if you dont. America is a free country and its citizens should be able to live their lifes without feeling the need to carry a Gun, if you do carry all the power to you but if you dont and you get shot by a lunatic then that is not the fault of the victim.
 
Mya said:
May be they are, may be they are not. May be they have a point or not.


But to be legally allowed to purchased 6,000 rounds of ammunition online , like he did?... well.... doesn't seem right to me!
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the shipping costs would be brutal

we buy online but we live close enough to pick it up

we get price breaks at 1000 rounds

we shoot about 1000 rounds a month between the three of us and the people I teach

why should that be illegal

what doesn't seem right to me is some asshole shooting a bunch of innocent people

but I understand if someone is going to do that asking about LAWS is sort of misplaced

the only law that stops a guy like that is the fundamental one of kill or be killed

since no one was able to kill him-he was able to kill as much as he wanted
 
Mya said:
May be they are, may be they are not. May be they have a point or not.


But to be legally allowed to purchased 6,000 rounds of ammunition online , like he did?... well.... doesn't seem right to me!
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Limiting ammo purchases can have a negative effect on people who want them for legal purposes, for instance if I bought a crate of .40 rounds for target shooting I can come out ahead rather than buying box rounds at about 100$ per hundred. While I may pay more at purchase it would take me longer to burn through them and there is a point that I come out ahead versus smaller purchases. The other problem is that if the kid wanted that many he could have just planned out further back and bought them a box at a time, or purchased from different retailers. I wouldn't have a problem with police asking questions of someone purchasing that much ammo at one time because legitimate shooters can more than answer their questions sufficiently whereas this kid could have raised a red flag somewher, I know I'd be happy to answer police questions about a bulk purchase. One more thing to consider, when ranges sell ammo, many times they buy in bulk for retailing, limiting this could have negative effects on them as well
 
Unless Colorado has a law making carrying a gun illegal,
unless there was no one in the theater with a concealed carry permit,
then it does not follow that more liberal gun laws would have put a stop to the shooting.
 
Higgins86 said:
but citizens of the USA should not have to carry weapons to go watch a film in the cinema with their family.
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I absolutetly agree with that, my commentary is upon the rise in violence more than anything. Prior to the 1970s people could for the most part keep their doors unlocked and call on their neighbors for anything, I would LOVE for that to be the general life again and honestly I don't know the best way to get there.
You have the right to carry a firearm but it should not mean death if you dont. America is a free country and its citizens should be able to live their lifes without feeling the need to carry a Gun, if you do carry all the power to you but if you dont and you get shot by a lunatic then that is not the fault of the victim.
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I may not have been clear, we are definitely on the same page here and I cannot find one thing to disagree with in this. I don't want people to have to carry a gun to survive, I'd much rather they stay in the recreational range, but until we can solve the rise in crime I worry that the need will increase rather than decrease. Nothing would make me happier than to be wrong on that.
 
Dittohead not! said:
Unless Colorado has a law making carrying a gun illegal,
unless there was no one in the theater with a concealed carry permit,
then it does not follow that more liberal gun laws would have put a stop to the shooting.
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I am not second guessing anyone who was in that theater.
 
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