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Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

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My obligation as a parent is not to anyone else. Only my children.

Me getting killed, even if it saves 50 other people, does not give my daughter the best father she deserves, does it? When you think about it THAT way, those other people? Their lives are cheap, sorry to say.

Who can disagree with that? It is instinct to take of your own first. And in the situation in Aurora there weren't many options. There were probably 4 exists and 2 of those were forward. Depending on your position you may only have the two rear exists with a maniac between you and the other two. In addition, with the smoke it would be difficult to tell how many aggressors were shooting.

I'm wondering if the theater people turned on the lights and when.
 
Do me a favor. Let's try a little experiment, lol.


I have to assume you folks have guns. Go get them. Load them. Go to your back yard, or some place where there is space to fire it legally, without risk to others. Set up a target. Set up 50 OTHER targets between you and the main target. Wait till night time, pref pitch black, no moon. Now, get a flood light, stare at it for 2 minutes, or until your eyes water, then turn around, navigate through the 50 other targets, and shoot the main target.


Have someone else video tape it, and post it on here, so we can all laugh at you.
 
My obligation as a parent is not to anyone else. Only my children.

Me getting killed, even if it saves 50 other people, does not give my daughter the best father she deserves, does it? When you think about it THAT way, those other people? Their lives are cheap, sorry to say.

If I had a daughter I would want her to seek out honorable men who would not be selfish and would have the courage to know lives are lives and a chance to save fifty lives is one hell of an awesome way to go. I would want her to know selflessness and courage are what make men (and women) honorable. I would not be able to hold her hand down the aisle, but I would have done the best I could to make sure the hand she held the longest was the best one and not the most convenient one.
 
Who can disagree with that? It is instinct to take of your own first. And in the situation in Aurora there weren't many options. There were probably 4 exists and 2 of those were forward. Depending on your position you may only have the two rear exists with a maniac between you and the other two. In addition, with the smoke it would be difficult to tell how many aggressors were shooting.

I'm wondering if the theater people turned on the lights and when.

Well let's take his mindset and place it in the Revolutionary War. Or the Civil War. how's that working now?
 
Call it what you want. Next time someone shoots up the theater you're at, be sure to jump in the line of fire to save some lives. Keep an image of your child in you mind as you die.

I've never been in a theater in which a maniac set off a smoke bomb and opened fire. But I have had to face the barrel of a gun, and I have had to make life/death choices that could have resulted in my own death versus the life of my child. I chose my child and got lucky...but my points are (1) that some folks do know what their own instincts are, and (2) even more don't agree with you that other people's lives are cheaper, necessarily, than one's own.
 
If I had a daughter I would want her to seek out honorable men who would not be selfish and would have the courage to know lives are lives and a chance to save fifty lives is one hell of an awesome way to go. I would want her to know selflessness and courage are what make men (and women) honorable. I would not be able to hold her hand down the aisle, but I would have done the best I could to make sure the hand she held the longest was the best one and not the most convenient one.

And what of the highly LIKELY chance, in this situation, to die without saving a single soul, without really altering the outcome in any way at all, lol?


You folks all seem to think you're Jason Born, lol.

I agree with the sentiment, here, I really do. You lead by example. But throwing your life away on a gambit is not exactly a good example to leave. This was, simply put, a nightmare, worst case scenario at it's best. A room full of marines wouldn't have made much difference, let alone me with a glock. Kid was wearing body armor. Hell, years back, there were two guys that robbed a bank in body armor and assualt rifles in LA, in broad daylight, with HUNDREDS of cops all around shooting at them...and they took hours to bring down, and many wounded officers.

I'm not asking you to be cowards, I'm simply saying, think rationally for a second.
 
Do me a favor. Let's try a little experiment, lol.


I have to assume you folks have guns. Go get them. Load them. Go to your back yard, or some place where there is space to fire it legally, without risk to others. Set up a target. Set up 50 OTHER targets between you and the main target. Wait till night time, pref pitch black, no moon. Now, get a flood light, stare at it for 2 minutes, or until your eyes water, then turn around, navigate through the 50 other targets, and shoot the main target.


Have someone else video tape it, and post it on here, so we can all laugh at you.

My first instinct would be to wait for a clear shot vice wasting my ammo, firing wildly at a target that I can't see. Again, that's just the way I think.
 
Do me a favor. Let's try a little experiment, lol.


I have to assume you folks have guns. Go get them. Load them. Go to your back yard, or some place where there is space to fire it legally, without risk to others. Set up a target. Set up 50 OTHER targets between you and the main target. Wait till night time, pref pitch black, no moon. Now, get a flood light, stare at it for 2 minutes, or until your eyes water, then turn around, navigate through the 50 other targets, and shoot the main target.


Have someone else video tape it, and post it on here, so we can all laugh at you.


I used to do this all the time in IPSC matches-maybe that's why I was a Class A when that was the top and I did real well in the regional NTI and other realistic scenario type contests including one where you had to start with your weapon in a pot of soapy water (scenario you get surprised in your kitchen while washing dishes) and another one involving CS gas
 
They should retrofit theaters/malls/schools etc. with safe positions for people to take cover during incidents like this.

Wouldn't it be cheaper to just have everyone wear bulletproof vests and helmets at theaters? Yes, get that visual.
 
You're right. That is the best way to keep from getting hit. Would it be the best way to help? Eh...not so much.

Just had to respond to this, as Dr. Martin Luther King once said that the difference between a good samaritan and a regular person is that when the two are confronted with another person in potential harm that the good samaritan asks, "What will happen to this person if I do nothing?", and the regular citizen asks, "What will happen to me if I do something?"
 
I've never been in a theater in which a maniac set off a smoke bomb and opened fire.
Neither, I imagine, has anyone else on this board.
But I have had to face the barrel of a gun, and I have had to make life/death choices that could have resulted in my own death versus the life of my child.
One on one, and your child was in direct danger. VASTLY different choice than, large panicked crowd, maniac with gun, choosing lives of strangers over well being of your child.
I chose my child and got lucky...
Of COURSE you chose your child...which is exactly my point. Compared to your child's, all other lives are cheap, even your own.
but my points are (1) that some folks do know what their own instincts are, and
Never argued that...
(2) even more don't agree with you that other people's lives are cheaper, necessarily, than one's own.
Nor that. But ALL other lives are cheaper than my daughter's. I'll let any number of people die, if it insures the survival of my daughter. So far as I know, God is the only one ****ed up enough to sacrifice a child for others.
 
And what of the highly LIKELY chance, in this situation, to die without saving a single soul, without really altering the outcome in any way at all, lol?


You folks all seem to think you're Jason Born, lol.

I agree with the sentiment, here, I really do. You lead by example. But throwing your life away on a gambit is not exactly a good example to leave. This was, simply put, a nightmare, worst case scenario at it's best. A room full of marines wouldn't have made much difference, let alone me with a glock. Kid was wearing body armor. Hell, years back, there were two guys that robbed a bank in body armor and assualt rifles in LA, in broad daylight, with HUNDREDS of cops all around shooting at them...and they took hours to bring down, and many wounded officers.

I'm not asking you to be cowards, I'm simply saying, think rationally for a second.

No one is saying that. What we are advocating, is that we hope that if we saw a chance to make a difference, that we would have the guts to go for it. We hope that our first instinct won't be to hide and hope that we're not one of the ones that gets killed.
 
Wouldn't it be cheaper to just have everyone wear bulletproof vests and helmets at theaters? Yes, get that visual.

the body armor most of us can buy won't stop a 5.56 SS109 bullet out of an AR. a shotgun blast aimed at your knee-thigh area is going to kill you at close range rather quickly too

btw a "cut on contact" arrow broad head shot out of a 60 pound compound bow (average deer hunter's weight) or a similar 150 cross bow is gonna rip right through most SPECTRA vests. so will a spear gun or an icepick
 
the body armor most of us can buy won't stop a 5.56 SS109 bullet out of an AR. a shotgun blast aimed at your knee-thigh area is going to kill you at close range rather quickly too

btw a "cut on contact" arrow broad head shot out of a 60 pound compound bow (average deer hunter's weight) or a similar 150 cross bow is gonna rip right through most SPECTRA vests. so will a spear gun or an icepick

Who the **** has an AR or shotgun at a movie theatre? Let alone a cross bow or a spear gun.
 
No one is saying that. What we are advocating, is that we hope that if we saw a chance to make a difference, that we would have the guts to go for it. We hope that our first instinct won't be to hide and hope that we're not one of the ones that gets killed.

I think it is such a hard thing to gauge, especially with the confusion involved in this thing. I mean crowds react as a being not as individual minds...
 
My first instinct would be to wait for a clear shot vice wasting my ammo, firing wildly at a target that I can't see. Again, that's just the way I think.

So now do this. It's pretty dark out...so, go to your TV room, sit close to it to imitate a large movie theater screen, kill the lights, and watch that TV for, say, 5 minutes like this. Now, turn away from the TV, and time yourself on how long it takes your eyes to adjust.
 
Who the **** has an AR or shotgun at a movie theatre? Let alone a cross bow or a spear gun.

well some nutcase who will hopefully die from prolonged buggery had two of those things in a movie theater

how he was able to sneak two large long arms into a theater is beyond me-he apparently went out the emergency exist (which should be monitored and ALARMED) and then came back in that way
 
yeah I was offered the slot at the range where we shoot-it was mainly for employees but I help a lot around there but I had to attend our office yearly "law camp" and to meet my Ohio Bar CLE requirements so the wife went and got a 100 percent on the test. When she gets her credentials she gets to buy a SW MP Pro for cost which is about 200 bucks. we have a bunch of those SW M&P autos and its my primary "Car gun" and I often carry the compact version so her knowing how to fix one is a good skill. She now wants to become a Glock armorer and an AR 15 armorer. I am one for 1911's-we had to build one from scratch and get it to shoot 10 magazines without a jam many years ago. The one I built I sold to a guy for what the parts cost plus some and I saw him about 6 months ago and he said its still running really well (Caspian Kit)

Good on her. As an M&P Pro owner and lover, I'm jealous.

I don't know about the Caspian Kit. Now I'm going to go look it up.
 
well some nutcase who will hopefully die from prolonged buggery had two of those things in a movie theater

how he was able to sneak two large long arms into a theater is beyond me-he apparently went out the emergency exist (which should be monitored and ALARMED) and then came back in that way

Yeah, I mean emergency exits shouldn't be used for anything else... That, may be, the real tragedy here...
 
No one is saying that. What we are advocating, is that we hope that if we saw a chance to make a difference, that we would have the guts to go for it. We hope that our first instinct won't be to hide and hope that we're not one of the ones that gets killed.

I 100% agree with this idea. But I'm pragmatic to a fault. I'm not gonna risk it, unless I think I have SOME chance for success...and honestly, it would take a pretty darn kung foo killer, in this situation, some sort of cyborg killing specialist, to have been ANY kind of affective in this situation.
 
Good on her. As an M&P Pro owner and lover, I'm jealous.

I don't know about the Caspian Kit. Now I'm going to go look it up.

many years ago if you wanted a full house 1911 you had one option-buy a colt and send it off to someone like Armand Swenson and 800+ dollars. Then the options increased-you could buy a colt or the brazilian made Springfield and send it off to Bill wilson, Richard Heine, Steve Nastoff, or Ed Brown. then caspian came along and they offered frames that already had the beavertail safety cut, slides that had been milled out for the BOMAR sights etc. so lots of custom smiths bought those kits and could provide a shooter with a "full house" gun at half the price

I remember talking to Fred Craig 22 years ago-he said I could send him a colt an 1000 Dollars and he would build me a world class "limited" gun or I could send him 1000 dollars and I'd get a caspian full house gun. I asked him why some much cheaper

No four hours to mill out the slide
No four hours to checker the front strap
no one hour to fit a beavertail safety

9 Hours at 50 an hour= the cost of a Colt stock pistol back then
 
I 100% agree with this idea. But I'm pragmatic to a fault. I'm not gonna risk it, unless I think I have SOME chance for success...and honestly, it would take a pretty darn kung foo killer, in this situation, some sort of cyborg killing specialist, to have been ANY kind of affective in this situation.

Who are you to risk other's lives? I mean how do you ultimately know that by sacrificing yourself you don't save the 12 killed? I just don't get this logic. How are you higher than anyone else in that vicinity? I know you don't think of yourself like that, but when it comes to life or death I think others are more important than myself. If everyone thought of a crisis like that, I'm sure people would re consider...

And when I ask those retorical questions I mean that in the most philosophical way and I imply nothing with them...
 
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The moment I heard this news on NPR this morning, I just KNEW this was gonna result in yet another attack on the 2nd amendment.
 
Neither, I imagine, has anyone else on this board. One on one, and your child was in direct danger. VASTLY different choice than, large panicked crowd, maniac with gun, choosing lives of strangers over well being of your child. Of COURSE you chose your child...which is exactly my point. Compared to your child's, all other lives are cheap, even your own. Never argued that...Nor that. But ALL other lives are cheaper than my daughter's. I'll let any number of people die, if it insures the survival of my daughter. So far as I know, God is the only one ****ed up enough to sacrifice a child for others.

I did not explain the circumstances of my choices--and don't intend to--but I was referring to separate incidents.

I can't say that I would choose my child's life over the life of another. It would depend on the unique situation. I can say that I understand the consequences in a way I am certain you do not.
 
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