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Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

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TurtleDude said:
the more you train the more likely your training will kick in in an emergency. that's why people who ambush Green Berets or Army Rangers tend to take far higher casualties than those who ambush supply convoys or engineering battalions
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While I don't disagree, the average citizen - at a Batman premiere nonetheless - isn't trained like a Green Beret or Ranger.
 
LaMidRighter said:
If you're dead anyway might as well try to get others out, it's not being a hero, it's just that other options suck much worse.
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I'm still trying to find out why the options "suck worse" when they get the majority of people out alive. What I'm seeing in your posts and the other "it's about having a gun" people on this forum is this dichotomy of "die or shoot someone." That's an incredibly false dichotomy.
 
apdst said:
"I'm going to do nothing. I don't care who dies, as long as it's not me".
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Actually, not much thought process involved. It's more like "instinct, no thinking at all."
 
All you gun loving, tobacco chewing, pickup truck driving, deer killing, creationist, anti global warming Bubbas who howl and scream every time someone wants to make sensible gun laws are responsible for this. Nice job. How many people have to die before you give up your right to buy a big gun to compensate for your small whacker?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
The majority of people didn't shoot back, tried to escape and escaped. Anybody saying that shooting him would have had a positive effect is basing their argument on pure speculation and wishful thinking that their position on guns would have been the answer the here. Moreover, if his intention was to have a few survivors as possible, then pointing a gun at him wouldn't change that intention and would likely just make you a bigger target.
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Anybody saying that shooting him would make things worse is speculating even more.
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
IOW, "I get to use a damn gun and kill somone! Woo!"
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The last thing I want to do in life is take another human being's. To do so is against my own moral code, my religion, and who I am in general. That said some people take that decision out of the hands of the individual by causing situations that put eveyone else or said individual at risk, if it's a choice between living with the taking of an assailant's life, losing my own, or allowing an innocent to die by doing nothing I will live with taking the assailant's life.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Oh Jesus Christ, we're talking about instincts (aka the fight or flight response). Until you figure that out, keep your condescending "maybe almost everybody thought of themselves" nonsense out of my face. Is it really that simple for people? Do you people really think that situations like this are a matter of the selfish and the noble. Jesus Christ, use some common sense and do some research.

And, by the way, I did hear about those who tried or did help others? Several of them did their best until their survival instincts kicked in and they ran away. I won't hold it against them and accuse them of "only thinking of themselves," since, you know, they were in a pretty tough situation that it's easy to judge when you're not in it.
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My, aren't you a hostile, defensive little camper. I wasn't being condescending; I was simply observing that no matter what the fight-or-flight crisis is, a few will act unselfishly. Sorry you have a problem with that POV. Very, in fact.
 
AtlantaAdonis said:
All you gun loving, tobacco chewing, pickup truck driving, deer killing, creationist, anti global warming Bubbas who howl and scream every time someone wants to make sensible gun laws are responsible for this. Nice job. How many people have to die before you give up your right to buy a big gun to compensate for your small whacker?
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Why the bigotry?
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
While I don't disagree, the average citizen - at a Batman premiere nonetheless - isn't trained like a Green Beret or Ranger.
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true but there are lots of us who have more training in the use of weapons than Police Officers

we also obey gun free zone signs too
 
Thunder said:
its MUCH easier to carry a concealed handgun in Colorado, than in NYC.

and yet, no one shot back at the killer.
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He popped smoke first. That and the ensuing chaos likely made it damned difficult to identify and shoot him. He, on the other hand, didn't give a rat's ass who he shot.
 
Furiounova said:
people who haven't served often think bases have open vending machines next to every light switch stocked with m-16s already clipped.
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Many of these same people also think bullets just bounce of bullet proof vests like they do with Superman's chest.
 
AtlantaAdonis said:
All you gun loving, tobacco chewing, pickup truck driving, deer killing, creationist, anti global warming Bubbas who howl and scream every time someone wants to make sensible gun laws are responsible for this. Nice job. How many people have to die before you give up your right to buy a big gun to compensate for your small whacker?
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And you're bringing up penile inadequacy... why? Do you think about this often?
 
TurtleDude said:
the more you train the more likely your training will kick in in an emergency. that's why people who ambush Green Berets or Army Rangers tend to take far higher casualties than those who ambush supply convoys or engineering battalions
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So, in order to prevent these sorts of things, people (the general public)should train like army rangers and special forces?

I'll wager that if EVERY SINGLE person in that theater were armed, the casualties would have been FAR higher. I am a PROPONENT of arming people, in order to prevent JUST THIS SORT OF CRAP, but come on, this was well planned. Kid chose a midnight showing at a movie theater, a DARK room in which the occupants are all staring at a giant, BRIGHTLY lit screen, with huge speakers, etc. In addition, he had smoke devices, further obscuring. He turned that situation into a complete nightmare, in terms of friendly fire. I'll wager only a few people at a time were even able to see the kid, let alone have the chance to pull a weapon, aim, and accurately fire. Add more guns to that situation would have been to add more BULLETS to that situation...bullets fired by scared, half blind people.

Come on, man.
 
AtlantaAdonis said:
All you gun loving, tobacco chewing, pickup truck driving, deer killing, creationist, anti global warming Bubbas who howl and scream every time someone wants to make sensible gun laws are responsible for this. Nice job. How many people have to die before you give up your right to buy a big gun to compensate for your small whacker?
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You moved to the South from where?
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Actually, not much thought process involved. It's more like "instinct, no thinking at all."
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That's exactly right and some people's instinct would be to act in a way that might subdue the shooter. Just like the Giffords shooting: people acted. They didn't run for their lives and hope the guy ran out of ammo.
 
ThePlayDrive said:
Oh Jesus Christ, we're talking about instincts (aka the fight or flight response). Until you figure that out, keep your condescending "maybe almost everybody thought of themselves" nonsense out of my face. Is it really that simple for people? Do you people really think that situations like this are a matter of the selfish and the noble. Jesus Christ, use some common sense and do some research.

And, by the way, I did hear about those who tried or did help others? Several of them did their best until their survival instincts kicked in and they ran away. I won't hold it against them and accuse them of "only thinking of themselves," since, you know, they were in a pretty tough situation that it's easy to judge when you're not in it.
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I don't think it's that simple or maybe it is. It is in those moments the true nature of the person is revealed. I remember the Amish school shooting in Pennsylvania where a 14 year old had the presence of mind to offer her life if the others were set free. fourteen years old. Amazing.

I also recall another guy named James entered a church on a Sunday and began shooting. A couple of unarmed people ran towards him and they stopped him.

I think in those moments the true self is revealed.
 
TurtleDude said:
not true-if he bought them for the purpose of using them in a massacre.
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That's what I've wondered. I guess we'll all be learning about whether the guy had previously been a hunter/shooter before and about the various booby traps in his apartment and how he made them/where he learned how.
 
Risky Thicket said:
He popped smoke first. That and the ensuing chaos likely made it damned difficult to identify and shoot him. He, on the other hand, didn't give a rat's ass who he shot.
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The smoke could have worked to a defender's advantage.
 
zgoldsmith23 said:
It's still pure speculation. You can't know how the neurons in your brain will fire, you can't know if you'll have a massive release of epinephrine, how your Thymus, Amygdala, or Hypothalamus will react.
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Actually, I'm pretty well crisis tested. Been through explosive gas leaks without breaking a sweat, been knifed, been assaulted, etc. and I can tell you I have an incredibly low fear factor. I get where you are going at but there are people who know exactly what they are capable of.
 
apdst said:
The smoke could have worked to a defender's advantage.
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In terms of HIDING, stayin glow, hoping to not get shot, YES.


In terms of returning fire, without killing anyone besides the aggressor?

Not so much.
 
LaMidRighter said:
Actually, I'm pretty well crisis tested. Been through explosive gas leaks without breaking a sweat, been knifed, been assaulted, etc. and I can tell you I have an incredibly low fear factor. I get where you are going at but there are people who know exactly what they are capable of.
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Even untested folks will act in an apparently selfless manner. I'm one of those guys that "doesn't think". Never been stabbed on nothing, but I've had a few close calls from falling, while just trying to grab another guy from falling. I used to work up high, on buildings and such, and I've saved a couple guys from bad spills, without even THINKING about the danger it put ME in, until after the fact. Then I realize..."Woa...I could have just died...why didn't I think that through a little better?"


Some people simply see what needs to be done, and do, and then think about it later.


Sad that those people tend to end up dead, eh, lol?
 
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