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Thread: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

  1. #951
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    I believe Canada is actually the most multicultural country in the world and again our crime rate is lower.
    Only if you count the European cultures as separate cultures. The U.S. has many more people of 'other than European origin', both in absolute terms and as a % of the population.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by AtlantaAdonis View Post
    All you gun loving, tobacco chewing, pickup truck driving, deer killing, creationist, anti global warming Bubbas who howl and scream every time someone wants to make sensible gun laws are responsible for this. Nice job. How many people have to die before you give up your right to buy a big gun to compensate for your small whacker?
    You may not realize this but that is a bigoted hateful intolerant statement. 40 years ago people felt comfortable and even righteous saying similar things about blacks and then it was accepted in common society. We were wrong then. You are wrong now.

    You are that person today railing against a class of people you hate without knowing.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by cAPSLOCK View Post
    You may not realize this but that is a bigoted hateful intolerant statement. 40 years ago people felt comfortable and even righteous saying similar things about blacks and then it was accepted in common society. We were wrong then. You are wrong now.

    You are that person today railing against a class of people you hate without knowing.

    He's not originally from Georgia or the South.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Risky Thicket View Post
    He's not originally from Georgia or the South.
    Sometimes I'm not sure he's originally from Earth.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    are you gonna explain why or just make useless drive-bys?
    I'll tell you why, oh inventor of useless drive-bys.

    Because if you limit it to 20 rounds per magazine, I'll just buy more magazines. Now, what problem have you solved? Nothing. It sounds good and feels good to say it, but it prevents nothing.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    you are possibly correct, as we do have a large number of white supremacist & Neo-Nazi hate groups in the USA.
    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    there are alot more hate groups that
    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    they are the most dangerous ones.
    Why? Because they place bounties on the heads of innocent American citizens based on race? Because they intimidate voters at polling places? With clubs, no less? Because they get on public radio and vow to hunt down and kill people with different skin color that theirs, bury them, dig them up, and then kill them again?

    Or is it because they do those things with the full blessing and consent of our "justice" department?

    Don't get me wrong, I have a great deal of disgust for most groups that base their existence on race. We, as the most diverse society ever, need to move beyond that. We can start by recognizing this sort of race (and religion)-based hypocrisy whenever it rears its ugly head.

    Good Morning America erroneously (and quickly and cheerfully) tried to tie this tragedy to the Tea Party. No one outside of (or sympathetic to) the Tea Party seemed to be too upset over that. Why? If ABC had immediately tried to make the connection to this crime and Muslims, would there have been outrage? You betcha, and rightfully so.

    We, as a society, need to start recognizing the divisions placed amongst us, regardless of the color/creed/religion/sex of the source. And then we need to attack it. And kill it. And dig it up and kill it again. So to speak. Our society could make great leaps forward if we, as a society, universally decried the forces that attempt to divide us.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    I believe Canada is actually the most multicultural country in the world and again our crime rate is lower.
    Not according to the percentages of minorities, existence of immigrant clusters or anything demographic that I can figure. We have ~13% blacks (Canada ~2%), we have neighborhoods that speak uncommon languages and we have an impressive immigrant and refugee population from all over the world. No one is fleeing/immigrating to Canada, except US socialists. You got old white people, three kinds - Frenchie, Brit and Commie.

    Ay?

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by molten_dragon View Post
    While I think that using this to advance a gun control agenda is despicable, I also think it's ridiculous to state categorically that armed citizens in the theater would have stopped the attack sooner. We have no idea what would have happened if people in the theater had been armed. There may have BEEN armed people in the theater.
    The thing is, it's okay to speculate from a tactical standpoint whether the shooter's tactical advantage would have been diminished if some of the potential victims had been armed, it's fair to counter and speculate that more shooters would have added to the chaos, neither side knows for sure and both have good points. It is disgusting to try to advance agendas based upon the emotions of a fresh tragedy, it's bad enough to ever use it, but within minutes there were already classless people trying to leverage this for gun control, anti-muslim statements, etc.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    In some cases, yes, you have the poor-to-struggling looking at Lifestyles of The Rich and Shameless and envying. But you also have the 35-50% of the population that can barely/not-quite afford what American norms consider a "decent lifestyle"... a reasonably comfortable home with electricity and air conditioning, a car that doesn't break down every month and isn't covered in Bondo or rust, health care insurance that covers important stuff adequately, a decent diet, and a little something left over for savings and entertainment, looking at the half of the population living in knocked-up-in-a-month McMansions, driving new 30k+ vehicles, and vacationing in Florida twice a year and feeling left out.


    Sure, some of it is failing to pursue education and opportunities or laziness, but not all of it by a long shot. One factor is simply that blue-collar jobs in most states don't pay a living wage anymore, like they did in the 1950's and 60's. There are a lot of factors like outsourcing and cheap illegal labor, but thats a big subject all by itself and I don't want to derail the thread.

    Suffice it to say that the PERCEPTION of being poor has a dramatic effect on crime rates, and that perception is based on what appears to be the norms in your culture, not in someone else's culture.

    Well said goshin...but good paying bluecollar jobs existed till the begining of the 80s...then the outsourcing began in earnest
    There isnt one iota of doubt that outsourcing screwed american workers and made only the very rich much richer at the working class' expense.
    Last edited by lpast; 07-21-12 at 03:29 PM.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    from Goshin

    Perhaps. I would again point out that 99.98% of privately owned firearms are NEVER used in a crime as a counterpoint, however. This means, mathmatically, that only 0.02% (or less) of our "gun availability" is part of the problem.
    Gun availability is a problem in the case of ease of availability like it was in the Colorado case. I don't think the 99+ percentage necessarily negates that. It speaks to something different.

    As for the "gun culture".... again I think this question is a complex one that does not have a simple one-liner answer. I don't think that serious gun owners, people who actually know their weapons and hunt or shoot a lot, are part of the problem.
    I would agree that they are NOT a problem in the deliberate misuse of their weapons.

    They are typically throughly aware of the danger factors inherent in firearms, and know from hunting and shooting what a hollowpoint round does to vulnerable flesh, and have no illusions about shooting people as a thing of "glory". More like bloody mess. I had to shoot an aggressive possum IN my house a few months ago, and my son and I had to clean up the bloody mess on the floor afterwards.... quite an education in de-glorifying shooting living creatures.

    A certain sort of "Casual" gun owner, and those who possess firearms as part of "thug culture" or out of movie-and-video-game fantasies about "how cool it would be to kill someone" (like the pair of teenage "sniper"-wannabees we had here in my state a couple weeks ago) are where the "gun culture glorification" problem really lies. Here is where you have most of the people who do not respect or understand their weapons, or what it is like to use them, or the enormity of taking life with them. This subculture is where you most often find people who fail to properly and safely store their firearms, or get drunk and accidently shoot Granny, or have unrealistic fantasies about how badass their going to look waving a gun at their asshole neighbor. This sub-set is a minority, but they get a lot of media attention because they're loud and cause lots of problems.
    That is a good and valid point. There is no doubt that the vast majority of gun owners are responsible. I have no quarrel with that.


    I dislike movies where the hero fires his gun and the bad guy grabs his chest, where there is mysteriously no visible wound, and falls instantly dead.... then the girl comes and stands by his side while he stares into the camera looking manly and the movie ends right there. It is unrealistic in so many ways. When people get shot they tend to bleed, scream, thrash around, and suffer quite a bit before they die in most cases. The hero is probably going to be taken into custody and questioned by the police, and may have to spend a lot of money on lawyers and several months or years in and out of courtrooms getting cleared of all charges in the case, in many jurisdictions.
    I agree. Somebody like martin Scorsese portrays it fairly realistically.

    Then you have movies, music and video games glorifying "thug life".... Grand Theft Auto jumps to mind, as do a lot of rap songs and rapsploitation movies like "Tupoc". If they showed the real consequences of thug life... broken families, broken-hearted mothers, abandoned children, monotonous years in prison, or an ugly early death by violence or drug overdose, instead of glorifying it we might have a little less crime.
    I agree. And that is also part of our culture that is a part of gun culture regardless if it is intended by responsible gun owners or not.

    If they showed more movies with truly realistic features like that, I think it would put a serious crimp in the unrealistic fantasies of thug-wannabees, Walter Mitty's and so on.

    But serious gun owners are typically not a part of the problem.
    I think you and I agree on much. But I will say this about your last statement. I agree that serious gun owners are not part of the problem in terms of they misusing weapons. I would however say that some of them contribute to the glorification of firearms and the elevation of them to the status of a playboy centerfold in the way they describe them and talk about them. I live in the Detroit area and I know guys who have pictures of cars on their walls and talk about them the way guys put up pin-ups of big breasted women. It borders on the perverse. I do think that there are gun folks like that and they contribute to the glorification of guns in our culture regardless if they abuse them or if they are responsible.

    As far as other cultures go - yes, you can compare us to Mexico or third world cultures where the murder rate is much higher than ours. But is that the standard we want to use? I think it is much more fair to compare us to Canada or Great Britain or Ireland or even Japan. And that comparison is not a kind one for us.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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