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Thread: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post

    Cultural factors are very much in play in comparing different countries and what happens there in terms of violence. Without taking these factors into account, it becomes and apples-to-oranges comparison.

    There have been mass shootings in many other modernized Western nations, most recently a terrible one in Norway, for instance. Yes, it is more frequent here.... why? That's a complex question with a complex answer, in which many factors are at work: our societal glorification of violence and violent entertainment, our "machismo", our stimatization of mental illness and lack of resources to treat same, our huge and very diverse population (we have states more populous than most European nations, and typically far more diverse culturally and ethnically), the specific pressures and stresses to which we subject ourselves (ie most European nations have a slower-paced lifestyle where they are more casual about deadlines, whereas being 5minutes late for work in the US can get you fired, as a minor example), our cultural heritage as a nation founded by revolution and expanded through conquest of the Native-occupied frontier.... the list could go on and on.

    There are no simple or one-dimensional solutions to psycho rampages.
    I certainly agree with your list of contributing factors which make this problem more evident in the USA than in most other nations. I have a honest question for you in addition to those things you listed, would we not also have to list gun culture and availability as part of those cultural factors?

    I agree 100% that we have a culture that glorifies violence in media and entertainment - and the use of guns are a big part of that. So don't we have to include the gun culture and its allure as part of our cultural differences which contribute to the problem itself?
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    I think the problem is that the decent lifestyle that the wage provided in the 50's and 60's is no longer considered a decent lifestyle. It is very much perception. A perception that because all these new products come out, that if you can't afford one you are somehow a victim of those who can.

    Sure, there's that, to some degree. What is the purpose of marketing? "To create a need". Actually to create a PERCEPTION of need.


    But some things really do become "needs" based on cultural norms. For instance, good Internet access. In 1960, if you wanted a job you checked the Want-Ads and asked around, and went to apply in person. Today most jobs are advertised online, many companies want or require you to fill out an application or send resume online.... heck my own employer no longer gives us check stubs: we have direct deposit and if you want to see the info you'd normally have on a paycheck stub, you HAVE to go ONLINE to the company website to get it. Internet access has become a "need".

    Air conditioning... in the 1950's hardly anyone had it, but most buildings were BUILT with that in mind and had better air circulation mechanics for the "chimney effect" (hot air rises) and better outside ventilation. Modern housing is built with AC in mind and made nearly "airtight" to minimize losses of central heat&air, and a lack of AC makes for a mighty hot house.... and if you live in the South and have no AC, you're not going to have much company wanting to hang out at your house in July and August.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    they are the most dangerous ones.
    all hate groups are dangerous
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by 0bserver92 View Post
    Ineffective govment and law check.
    Poverty check.
    Violent Factionalism check. (Gangs) (Also depends on your definition of violent factionalism)

    Yet our murder rate is far lower.
    here is the intentional murder rate around the world

    List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If you look at the most recent figures for the 2010's, you will see that the USA is listed at 4.8. That is higher than comparable nations such as Canada( three times higher), the United Kingdom (almost four times higher) and a whole host of European nations who are far behind even the UK - Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Sweden, germany, Spain and Australia. Other than Canada, the nation that I find to be most like the USA in terms of urban/rural and manufacturing and economy is Japan and they have a rate of 0.34 which is a tenth of what ours is.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    all hate groups are dangerous
    armed ones are more dangerous.

    ones that have a history of violence & murder are more danngerous.

    and as we all know, many of the groups that you consider to be "hate groups", are none of the sort.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    armed ones are more dangerous.

    ones that have a history of violence & murder are more danngerous.

    and as we all know, many of the groups that you consider to be "hate groups", are of the sort.
    thats not true at all. you only consider white groups hate groups. just because you are blind to groups of hate beyond that doesnt make it not so.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by muciti View Post
    are you able to explain how are like usual are you just spewing garbage statements. you can look at the numbers. we are one of the most violent countries in the world, and we are one of the most culturally diverse. I havent looked up the numbers exactlly but for countries not at war i bet we are the most violent in the world. and i am pretty sure we are the most culturally diverse. there is more anger and hate in this country than any where else
    I believe Canada is actually the most multicultural country in the world and again our crime rate is lower.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I certainly agree with your list of contributing factors which make this problem more evident in the USA than in most other nations. I have a honest question for you in addition to those things you listed, would we not also have to list gun culture and availability as part of those cultural factors?

    I agree 100% that we have a culture that glorifies violence in media and entertainment - and the use of guns are a big part of that. So don't we have to include the gun culture and its allure as part of our cultural differences which contribute to the problem itself?
    Perhaps. I would again point out that 99.98% of privately owned firearms are NEVER used in a crime as a counterpoint, however. This means, mathmatically, that only 0.02% (or less) of our "gun availability" is part of the problem.

    As for the "gun culture".... again I think this question is a complex one that does not have a simple one-liner answer. I don't think that serious gun owners, people who actually know their weapons and hunt or shoot a lot, are part of the problem. They are typically throughly aware of the danger factors inherent in firearms, and know from hunting and shooting what a hollowpoint round does to vulnerable flesh, and have no illusions about shooting people as a thing of "glory". More like bloody mess. I had to shoot an aggressive possum IN my house a few months ago, and my son and I had to clean up the bloody mess on the floor afterwards.... quite an education in de-glorifying shooting living creatures.

    A certain sort of "Casual" gun owner, and those who possess firearms as part of "thug culture" or out of movie-and-video-game fantasies about "how cool it would be to kill someone" (like the pair of teenage "sniper"-wannabees we had here in my state a couple weeks ago) are where the "gun culture glorification" problem really lies. Here is where you have most of the people who do not respect or understand their weapons, or what it is like to use them, or the enormity of taking life with them. This subculture is where you most often find people who fail to properly and safely store their firearms, or get drunk and accidently shoot Granny, or have unrealistic fantasies about how badass their going to look waving a gun at their asshole neighbor. This sub-set is a minority, but they get a lot of media attention because they're loud and cause lots of problems.

    I dislike movies where the hero fires his gun and the bad guy grabs his chest, where there is mysteriously no visible wound, and falls instantly dead.... then the girl comes and stands by his side while he stares into the camera looking manly and the movie ends right there. It is unrealistic in so many ways. When people get shot they tend to bleed, scream, thrash around, and suffer quite a bit before they die in most cases. The hero is probably going to be taken into custody and questioned by the police, and may have to spend a lot of money on lawyers and several months or years in and out of courtrooms getting cleared of all charges in the case, in many jurisdictions.

    Then you have movies, music and video games glorifying "thug life".... Grand Theft Auto jumps to mind, as do a lot of rap songs and rapsploitation movies like "Tupoc". If they showed the real consequences of thug life... broken families, broken-hearted mothers, abandoned children, monotonous years in prison, or an ugly early death by violence or drug overdose, instead of glorifying it we might have a little less crime.

    If they showed more movies with truly realistic features like that, I think it would put a serious crimp in the unrealistic fantasies of thug-wannabees, Walter Mitty's and so on.

    But serious gun owners are typically not a part of the problem.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    BTW guys, the situation at the shooter's apartment wasn't defused until just a few hours ago:

    Police: Trip wire deactivated at Colorado theater shooting suspect's apartment - U.S. News
    "A man you can bait with a tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons." --Hillary Rodham Clinton
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    here is the intentional murder rate around the world

    List of countries by intentional homicide rate - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    If you look at the most recent figures for the 2010's, you will see that the USA is listed at 4.8. That is higher than comparable nations such as Canada( three times higher), the United Kingdom (almost four times higher) and a whole host of European nations who are far behind even the UK - Ireland, Italy, Netherlands, Sweden, germany, Spain and Australia. Other than Canada, the nation that I find to be most like the USA in terms of urban/rural and manufacturing and economy is Japan and they have a rate of 0.34 which is a tenth of what ours is.

    You should also note that there are a number of nations that have rates as high as 34.... several times our rate. Some of them have strict gun control laws.

    Japan, Canada, the UK.... different cultures with different norms. Again, the UK is very violent, statistically 4x as violent as the US.... they just don't kill each other as often, and didn't even when they had hardly any gun control.

    Fiddling While Rome Burns
    ISIS: Carthago Delenda Est
    "I used to roll the dice; see the fear in my enemies' eyes... listen as the crowd would sing, 'now the old king is dead, Long Live the King.'.."

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