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Thread: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    As I've said before, I've examined homicide rates for many different countries, and examined what factors they have in common.

    Just FYI, there are MANY nations in the world with FAR higher homicide rates than the USA. Several times higher.

    Some of them have strict gun laws, some don't. The things they have in common are as follows:
    1. Corrupt or ineffective government/law.
    2. Poverty.
    3. Some kind of violent factionalism, be it tribes or gangs or whatever, often combined with a lucrative drug trade.


    We (the USA) have two out of three. Despite being a wealthy country overall, we do have a substantial percentage in relative poverty. Even if the poor in the USA are not "poor" by Somali standards, they are poor by US standards.... and this creates resentment and a desire to have what others have.
    We certainly have gangs, factions and drug trade a-plenty.

    We also have 330 million people, and a culture that puts a lot of pressure (hence, stress) on most individuals.... so we have psycho nutjobs now and then. As a percentage of the huge population though, these psycho nutjob rampages are still relatively rare overall.
    We have 4x the rate of Canada and England/Wales. Canada is the better example due to geography and culture. Why do we have quadruple rates?

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Yet you still have rather a lot of guns in circulation compared to most European nations. I have Canadian friends who own small arsenals including AR15's, legally.



    Personally I think Canadians are just too polite to murder each other very often. Bad show, just not done eh?
    Yes but to they abide by the magazine restrictions? You are only allowed to have a 5-round magazine. They are greatly restricted in what you can do with a gun here and what you are aloud to own. Only people who the government think are in danger are allowed to carry concealed weapons, I believe only 500 of those permits have ever been issued. Due to these restrictions you can't import much so there is less of a chance of them getting into the hands of criminals if they are not even in the country. Culture also plays a major factor as we are not a group of people that are known to carry guns unless you are Native or Albertan. Quebecois are not exactly known to be tolerant of guns.
    Last edited by Carjosse; 07-21-12 at 01:03 PM.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Goshin
    I appreciate your honest post. However, I would say that we are not in the middle. We have not found that place. By your own admission, we have more guns and more carry laws than every before in recent memory. The right has won this issue and they have prevailed. And these sort of things keep happening. And they happen here in the USA more than anywhere else.

    Why is that?

    I heard somebody on the radio ask a question today and it was food for thought. I will ask it of you and anyone who wants to answer: If a gunman did this to a session of Congress and seventy members were shot - a dozen fatally - would the topic of guns be off the table the way it seems to be whenever these things happen today and for the last few years?
    Not a good question because the analogy fails to consider the physical environment of where the legislators meet and the security already in place. It also takes the focus from causation right back to seeking laws as a counter and that is just an eternal anvil.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Furiounova View Post
    We have 4x the rate of Canada and England/Wales. Canada is the better example due to geography and culture. Why do we have quadruple rates?
    We have a differnt demographic than those countries.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    from tw78640



    I have seen nothing of the kind in my state of Michigan. Perhaps things are different where you live. China went to a ban on opium after the Communist revolution and it was tremendously effective and successful. Of course, they were serious which we seem not to be. I am NOT advocating we do what China did - but our efforts are half-assed at best - fully assed at worst.




    This latest case purchased the guns LEGALLY.



    One could also say that what we have today is not working either.



    A few posts ago Goshin reminded us that we have more guns today and more people are open carrying them than at any time in recent memory. So apparently this does not frighten the ones who do these things.




    Yes - this one event in Colorado. Or is it one event in Virginia? Or just one event in Texas? Or just a single event in Michigan? I think you get the point.




    I have no idea as to any accurate answer that can be proved beyond doubt. However, I see little suport for making guns illegal so its really more of a strawman proposition.



    Yes. Because we are not serious. Again, look up the history of opium in China and what happened to it in the 1950's.


    Which nobody seems to be advocating so this is yet another strawman.



    First, I see not actual real true honest-to-goodness balls-to-the-walls war on drugs that exists in any sense beyond a mere media tag that is hollow and an oxymoron.
    Second, nobody is advocating arresting people who are gun owners.
    You have quite a long list of what you are NOT proposing. Just what laws would YOU propose that would have kept this latest NUT from buying his collection of guns and ammo?
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Furiounova View Post
    We have 4x the rate of Canada and England/Wales. Canada is the better example due to geography and culture. Why do we have quadruple rates?
    Cultural differences, mainly. I went over some of that a few posts ago.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    Cultural differences, mainly. I went over some of that a few posts ago.
    I see you have never been to Alberta then.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Furiounova View Post
    We have 4x the rate of Canada and England/Wales. Canada is the better example due to geography and culture. Why do we have quadruple rates?
    I think the American culture is rife with the adoration of violence. It's in our love of guns, fascination with military, sports, TV, video games, movies, etc. On top of that we're creating a whole generation of spoiled brats that are digital idiots who can't differentiate fantasy from reality.
    Einstein, "science without religion is lame, religion without science is blind."

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    and why does crazy and evil find its way far more often in the USA than in any other single society?
    Does it? Can you really make this generalization?

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Goshin
    I appreciate your honest post. However, I would say that we are not in the middle. We have not found that place. By your own admission, we have more guns and more carry laws than every before in recent memory. The right has won this issue and they have prevailed. And these sort of things keep happening. And they happen here in the USA more than anywhere else.

    Why is that?

    I heard somebody on the radio ask a question today and it was food for thought. I will ask it of you and anyone who wants to answer: If a gunman did this to a session of Congress and seventy members were shot - a dozen fatally - would the topic of guns be off the table the way it seems to be whenever these things happen today and for the last few years?
    It would be off the table, as far as I'm concerned, but no doubt the anti-gunners in the government would make tons of political hay with it.
    Quote Originally Posted by Top Cat View Post
    At least Bill saved his transgressions for grown women. Not suggesting what he did was OK. But he didn't chase 14 year olds.

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