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Thread: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by MaggieD View Post
    Unless and until our justice system is able to get illegal guns off the street -- stop drive-bys that kill more people in a typical weekend than these horrific incidents kill in a year -- you'll never convince me that more laws will work. This is one of the prices we pay for a free society -- that nutz happen and people die.

    Give me a gun, let me carry it, and I will shoot them. Or die trying.

    (Oh, yes, I know it sounds like bravado. But really? My personal instincts tell me (though I've never been in such a situation) that there are good reasons to die. That theater incident? That would have been one of them. And I know damned well I'm not alone.
    That is NOT the society I want to live in. Were it to come to that - I would move to Canada. I love this nation and its people and it would pain me greatly to do that. But I feel such a society is a giant step backwards in civilization and I would want no part of it.

    If this is indeed the price we pay for second amendment rights, why do people get so damn offended when I propose that the NRA and others build a monument to those who pay that price? Wayne La Piere does not pay that price. Charlton Heston did NOT pay that price. Seventy people in Colorado paid a price and for a dozen of them they paid the ultimate price. But when I and others want that price acknowledged publicly, we are attacked and ripped into and portrayed as gun grabbers.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Goshin
    I appreciate your honest post. However, I would say that we are not in the middle. We have not found that place. By your own admission, we have more guns and more carry laws than every before in recent memory. The right has won this issue and they have prevailed. And these sort of things keep happening. And they happen here in the USA more than anywhere else.

    Why is that?

    I heard somebody on the radio ask a question today and it was food for thought. I will ask it of you and anyone who wants to answer: If a gunman did this to a session of Congress and seventy members were shot - a dozen fatally - would the topic of guns be off the table the way it seems to be whenever these things happen today and for the last few years?
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-21-12 at 12:03 PM.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    ...I heard somebody on the radio ask a question today and it was food for thought. I will ask it of you and anyone who wants to answer: If a gunman did this to a session of Congress and seventy members were shot - a dozen fatally - would the topic of guns be off the table the way it seems to be whenever these things happen today and for the last few years?
    if such a horrible thing occured, gun-regulations would be THE TABLE for some time to come.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    limiting magazine size to say...20 rounds....isn't such a bad idea.
    Do you think this psycho would have stayed home that night if he couldn't get a 100-round mag?

    He apparently booby-trapped his apartment, setting his stereo to blare techno music at midnight so that if/when law enforcement opened his door the gasoline bombs would go off. If we banned gasoline and techno music, would the outcome have been any different? Apparently some sort of fireworks are also part of his booby-traps, should we ban fireworks?

    My local liberal mouthpiece (formerly a "news" channel) is whining about this psycho's ability to purchase as much ammunition as he did (6,000 rounds via the internet). I don't know how many rounds he actually used, but I'm guessing he didn't use 6,000 rounds. So what limit should we apply to gun owners purchasing ammunition? Remember the fact that only responsible gun-owners follow the gun laws, the criminals and crazies do not follow the law. Clearly.

    Banning law-abiding, sane citizens from purchasing potentially lethal items doesn't cure crazy. Crazy will always find a way.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Goshin
    I appreciate your honest post. However, I would say that we are not in the middle. We have not found that place. By your own admission, we have more guns and more carry laws than every before in recent memory. The right has won this issue and they have prevailed. And these sort of things keep happening. And they happen here in the USA more than anywhere else.

    Why is that?

    I heard somebody on the radio ask a question today and it was food for thought. I will ask it of you and anyone who wants to answer: If a gunman did this to a session of Congress and seventy members were shot - a dozen fatally - would the topic of guns be off the table the way it seems to be whenever these things happen today and for the last few years?

    Therein lies the problem; what you consider the "middle" and what I and many others consider "the middle" are very mismatched. You view the proliferation of guns in the hands of private citizens as a negative; yet statistically 99.98%+ of those guns are NEVER used in any kind of crime. You view concealed carry as a negative, apparently, despite the fact that existing evidence says that "shall issue" concealed carry in a given state, tends to cause criminals to alter their behavior to committing crimes where they are unlikely to encounter an armed citizen.... things like muggings and carjackings go down while "cold" burglaries (residents not at home) go up.... which I consider a positive as it leads to less loss of innocent life.

    You haven't defined what you consider "that middle ground" for us, but your post seems to imply that you favor fewer guns in private hands regardless of whether they are lawfully used or not, and give the impression that you don't like shall-issue-carry permits even though there is no evidence that CCW's are a problem.... yes? No?

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Why does this tend to happen here more than in other nations and with more frequency?

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spree_killer
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-21-12 at 12:14 PM.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    To be more factual about the 'Wild West' and firearm deaths the links fail to mention one key factor. Many cow towns in the West, like Dodge City, had severe gun prohibitions. Yes just like DC today, many had a prohibition on carrying pistols in the street, a far cry from the Hollywood myth.

    The 'Shoot-out at the OK Corral' is highly popularized as an example of the Wild West where a dozen men faced off at point blank range and had at it-

    a total of THREE men died that day, not even a average weekend in any major city these days.

    Here in Oklahoma we had a pretty good push to permit Open Carry, with a permit of course, but the Republican leadership quietly sat on it.

    I think the rational path lies somewhere between the all or nothing debate that drives the 'gun' control issue.

    I can't say I am sad even the strongly 'Conservative' politicians had some sense and stopped short of the more extreme rhetoric.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by GJ Flash View Post
    Do you think this psycho would have stayed home that night if he couldn't get a 100-round mag?

    He apparently booby-trapped his apartment, setting his stereo to blare techno music at midnight so that if/when law enforcement opened his door the gasoline bombs would go off. If we banned gasoline and techno music, would the outcome have been any different? Apparently some sort of fireworks are also part of his booby-traps, should we ban fireworks?

    My local liberal mouthpiece (formerly a "news" channel) is whining about this psycho's ability to purchase as much ammunition as he did (6,000 rounds via the internet). I don't know how many rounds he actually used, but I'm guessing he didn't use 6,000 rounds. So what limit should we apply to gun owners purchasing ammunition? Remember the fact that only responsible gun-owners follow the gun laws, the criminals and crazies do not follow the law. Clearly.

    Banning law-abiding, sane citizens from purchasing potentially lethal items doesn't cure crazy. Crazy will always find a way.
    The point is that there is no rational reason for anyone who isn't contemplating a massacre to have a 100-round magazine, and if he had had to change magazines it would have perhaps decreased the death, injury count, or given someone a chance to rush him or fire back when he changed magazines ... even if it just takes a couple seconds.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by GJ Flash View Post
    Do you think this psycho would have stayed home that night if he couldn't get a 100-round mag?

    He apparently booby-trapped his apartment, setting his stereo to blare techno music at midnight so that if/when law enforcement opened his door the gasoline bombs would go off. If we banned gasoline and techno music, would the outcome have been any different? Apparently some sort of fireworks are also part of his booby-traps, should we ban fireworks?

    My local liberal mouthpiece (formerly a "news" channel) is whining about this psycho's ability to purchase as much ammunition as he did (6,000 rounds via the internet). I don't know how many rounds he actually used, but I'm guessing he didn't use 6,000 rounds. So what limit should we apply to gun owners purchasing ammunition? Remember the fact that only responsible gun-owners follow the gun laws, the criminals and crazies do not follow the law. Clearly.

    Banning law-abiding, sane citizens from purchasing potentially lethal items doesn't cure crazy. Crazy will always find a way.

    Exactly. 6000 rounds does not equate to 6000 bodies; even Zeitszov (sp?) missed a shot now and then. Also, nobody is going to get to fire 6,000 rounds at innocent people without being stopped by either armed citizens or armed police long before he fires even a tenth of his ammo. This incident is case-in-point.

    Hell, I probably have 6000 rounds here at my house. We do a lot of target shooting. A lot of it is cheap 22 rimfire ammo for plinking though...

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Crazy (and evil) will find a way--sarin gas, bombs, cyanide, whatever.

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