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Thread: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Goshin View Post
    And if we reduced it to 15mph we'd save tens of thousands of lives.... and it would be worth it right? After all, whats' inconveniencing tens of millions of people compared to saving lives? ...
    do you buy your straw by the cubic yard or the ton?

    Last edited by Thunder; 07-21-12 at 10:58 AM.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Kal'Stang View Post
    Mean while our military can use wtf they want. The whole purpose of the 2nd amendment wasn't to ensure people could hunt ya know. But to ensure that the general populace was never ruled by a tyrannical government. Fat lot of good the 2nd amendment is going to be in that department if we're all restricted to single shot rifles...if that.
    And a fat lot of good a semi-auto rifle is going to do you against stinger missiles, Cobra attack helicopters, M-1 tanks, and laser-guided bombs.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    A serious question for you and other who feel this way: if one is not suppose to "use" actual real events that have occurred in our society to foster discussion and put forth suggestions and ideas as how to avoid such things, what is suppose to help drive and motivate the national discourse on this topic?

    What is so inherently wrong with adding this movie theater massacre to the long and growing list of firearm massacres that have occurred and then asking relevant questions about it?

    This has happened before.

    This will happen again.

    We have a nation where guns are widespread and readily available. We have the Constitution which protects the right to bear arms. I believe this is mostly a good and positive thing in which the benefits out weigh the negatives. However, there are negatives. There is a downside. And a dozen movie goers were simply the latest to pay the ultimate price as part of that downside.

    So what is so inherently wrong with having an honest discussion when these thing occur?
    If we passed legislation that made it illegal for everyone to possess firearms, only bad guys would have guns. If we pass legislation limiting magazine size, people will build kits and only the bad guys will have them. If we pass legislation limiting automatics, only the bad guys will have them.

    If people want to restrict the sale, possession and use of handguns or anything else, they need to show those opposed that our gun laws work the way they are. You know, that inner city gangs don't have collections of illegal ones to use against the rest of us. That the coppers can get them off the streets. Taking guns away from honest, law-abiding citizens isn't the way.

    We pay many different prices for our free society. You're right. This is one of them. You can't stop nutcases.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    And a fat lot of good a semi-auto rifle is going to do you against stinger missiles, Cobra attack helicopters, M-1 tanks, and laser-guided bombs.
    How would you rate our military performance in Afghanistan and Iraq?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    And a fat lot of good a semi-auto rifle is going to do you against stinger missiles, Cobra attack helicopters, M-1 tanks, and laser-guided bombs.
    As much as I respect Kal's views on this topic, I agree with you. Using "protection from our military" as a defense to gun ownership doesn't cut it in my book. We are long-LONGLONG!! past the days of our citizenry being able to be on an equal footing with our military through ownership of guns.
    The devil whispered in my ear, "You cannot withstand the storm." I whispered back, "I am ​the storm."

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    that of course is the emotobabble response

    the federal bans on booby traps and explosives worked to prevent acquisition of those items

    100 round barrel type magazine-what idiocy. drum magazine is the correct term btw

    disarmed victims in gun free zones-the ARC wet dream
    Being restricted to an, e.g. 17 round magazine hardly constitutes "disarmed".
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I am not advocating an unarmed society. I am not advocating that we all be armed and carry.

    I am not a person who wants to ban guns or ammunition and take away the guns of current owners.
    I am not a NRA member who puts up centerfolds of the latest and greatest high powered rifle.

    Is there not some place in the middle where people can advocate for responsible gun ownership but yet have reasonable laws which protect society from turning into Deadwood?


    The "Wild West" wasn't nearly as wild (in terms of crime) as many people mistakenly think it was.

    Years ago, when I was in college, Frontier Violence: Another Look was required reading for one of my Western American History courses. A portion of the book was called “The Myth of Frontier Violence.” The argument: while America’s western frontier could certainly be a violent place, it was no more so than any other part of United States at that time . . .



    In terms of violent crime statistics, legendary gunfighting burgs like Tombstone, Dodge City and Deadwood were no more dangerous for the law abiding citizen than any other small town. The western towns were considerably safer than the big cities like New York, Chicago and Boston of that same period, where violent crime against innocent victims was much more common.

    What violence did occur was either between admitted criminals, or existed in the lawless, unorganized mining camps that sprung up overnight during the various gold rushes. Those mining camps typically had a very short period of “lawlessness” – measured in weeks or months, not years. After that they either established law and order or withered away when the gold disappeared.
    http://www.thetruthaboutguns.com/201...d-west-or-not/


    In his book, Frontier Violence: Another Look, author W. Eugene Hollon, provides us with these astonishing facts:
    •In Abilene, Ellsworth, Wichita, Dodge City, and
    Caldwell, for the years from 1870 to 1885, there were only 45 total homicides. This equates to a rate of approximately 1 murder per 100,000 residents per year.
    •In
    Abilene, supposedly one of the wildest of the cow towns, not a single person was killed in 1869 or 1870.



    Zooming forward over a century to 2007, a quick look at Uniform Crime Report statistics shows us the following regarding the aforementioned gun control “paradise” cities of the east:

    •DC – 183 Murders (31 per 100,000 residents)

    New York – 494 Murders (6 per 100,000 residents)

    Baltimore – 281 Murders (45 per 100,000 residents)

    Newark – 104 Murders (37 per 100,000 residents)
    Dispelling the myth of 'The Wild West' - Minneapolis gun rights | Examiner.com

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Being restricted to an, e.g. 17 round magazine hardly constitutes "disarmed".
    limiting magazine size to say...20 rounds....isn't such a bad idea.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    limiting magazine size to say...20 rounds....isn't such a bad idea.
    Yea that makes sense. Not.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    Your assessment is both overly broad and far too simplistic. I used to carry a firearm until I stopped. In certain areas a firearm is is necessary, such as the wilderness where human population is low. In a crowded metropolitan area a firearm is can be a danger, especially when law enforcement is readily available. Moreover, there are two type of people that should not carry at all; those who are crazy and those who act irresponsibly. I do not wish to make gun control an issue, but, when firearms are made available too easily the crazy and irresponsible ones seem to the ones who are committing heinous acts with these weapons.

    I never heard of a crazed killer ask someone if they were "on the right" or "on the left" before shooting them. Perhaps political perspectives are a non issue here and public safety is the issue at hand.
    This is kind of a dumb analogy. For most people a car represents essential transportation. Society would be radically changed if cars were restricted. Guns ... not so much.

    OTOH, you're required to have a license to drive a car, and your care registration and license must be periodically renewed....

    Here's another statistic: at least since 1945, more people are killed by cars every year than nuclear bombs. Therefore it's silly to restrict nuclear bombs.
    Last edited by AdamT; 07-21-12 at 11:06 AM.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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