• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

Status
Not open for further replies.
TurtleDude said:
1) no one was armed in that area

2) in a church in colorado a woman with a pistol wounded the active shooter-he then killed himself

3) in another active shooter case at a school, teacher got a pistol and captured the shooter

4) in cincinnati, a killer shot a woman jogging. a guy who had a loaded pistol in his car (a gray area since there was no CCW permit at the time) chased the killer down at gun point and took him prisoner until the cops arrived.

how would a guy with a 100 round magazine been able to get that close to Giffords?

how was the Aurora shooter able to exit an emergency exit and come back in without alarms being sounded

why did he choose a gun free zone
Click to expand...

Your argument boils down to one thing: let America be turned into a place where people walk around brandishing powerful weapons in public and can take them anywhere they desire at any time. And in doing this you hope - you cross your fingers - you light a candle - that when the firing begins only the bad guys will be filled with lead and no innocents will get caught in the cross fire upping the potential murder count even higher. You hope and pray that none of these armed people get drunk or stoned or just plain angry or pissed off at anybody and decide to pull out their manhood and settle up a score.

That is not the United States of America. That is Nightmare America.
 
haymarket said:
There is no true war on drugs. It is a PR title that poorly describes what is at best a half-assed effort and at worst is a fully assed effort.

The last true war we had was World War II. We had a total mobilization of the American society and winning the war was a daily effort involving the American people. Try to imagine Nazi operatives handing out literature on a New York City corner in 1943 and tell me how long they would last. Now compare that wartime environment with the "war on drugs" today.

There is no war on drugs.
Click to expand...

LOL tell that to the over 1 million americans who have been incarcerated over drug violations. tell that to the state ADAs and federal AUSAs who do nothing but prosecute drug violations. Hell we even have DRUG COURTS in some areas.

but you do have a point. the government doesn't want to win this war-unlike WWII

its hard to tell which war has cost more American lives.
 
Mya said:
I know...:shock: people tend to get so hot-headed with this topic.... can you only imagine if this wasn't a forum and we were all discussing this face to face ... each one holding a gun... well... we would have killed each other many threads ago !:shock:
Click to expand...

A tremendous post. Very insightful. Is that the type of nation you want to live in? I know I certainly do not.
 
haymarket said:
Your argument boils down to one thing: let America be turned into a place where people walk around brandishing powerful weapons in public and can take them anywhere they desire at any time. And in doing this you hope - you cross your fingers - you light a candle - that when the firing begins only the bad guys will be filled with lead and no innocents will get caught in the cross fire upping the potential murder count even higher. You hope and pray that none of these armed people get drunk or stoned or just plain angry or pissed off at anybody and decide to pull out their manhood and settle up a score.

That is not the United States of America. That is Nightmare America.
Click to expand...


No, it's more like subsidized housing in Chicago... where they have draconian anti-gun laws.
 
TurtleDude said:
LOL tell that to the over 1 million americans who have been incarcerated over drug violations. tell that to the state ADAs and federal AUSAs who do nothing but prosecute drug violations. Hell we even have DRUG COURTS in some areas.

but you do have a point. the government doesn't want to win this war-unlike WWII

its hard to tell which war has cost more American lives.
Click to expand...

That is not a war. It is a public relations gimmick pure and simple.

The drug problem in China from opium use was much worse in the 1940's in China. Estimates say as many as one out of every fine Chinese men used opium. By the mid 1950's it was non existent. Now that is a war on drugs.
 
haymarket said:
A tremendous post. Very insightful. Is that the type of nation you want to live in? I know I certainly do not.
Click to expand...


Utter nonsense. :lamo

I wouldn't kill someone over this idiotic argument, and I seriously doubt anyone else here is that stupid either.

I've HAD heated arguments about politics, while standing around in a group of men who were ALL armed. Nobody got shot. Nobody pointed a gun at anyone.

Just because you fear YOU have no self-control doesnt mean everyone lacks it.
 
Goshin said:
No, it's more like subsidized housing in Chicago... where they have draconian anti-gun laws.
Click to expand...

Care to elaborate on that because I have no idea what you are talking about.
 
Goshin said:
He probably meant he'd killed animals with them, for the most part if not entirely.

OTOH I know a sniper who has some intresting "trophy weapons" taken off men he'd shot and killed... how he got them back to the States I wouldn't know and didn't ask.
Click to expand...

some guy I knew in the first gulf conflict was a Navy Sniper (SEAL) who brought back two Barrett 50's from Iraquis he had whacked. he was able to get them back since they were American made and not Title II weapons requiring a tax stamp. An old SF MSgt I know managed to get a couple real AKs back from the Nam circa 1967. I believe he registered them under the 68 ATF amnesty and paid the fees. one of his buddies got a couple back and didn't. this was early on before people in charge started checking for that stuff. The weapons allegedly are buried in a public park near where this guy lives.

but I know lots of AKs came back

normally stuff like SKS, pistols etc could be brought back. not burp guns or AKs or the Czech stuff that was around Nam. Nor the fairly common :Swedish Ks that were favored by the MAC/SOG guys (at least according to the one who just retired from my office-he was a captain over there, used those in operations in areas where they weren't officially allowed to be)
 
haymarket said:
Your argument boils down to one thing: let America be turned into a place where people walk around brandishing powerful weapons in public and can take them anywhere they desire at any time. And in doing this you hope - you cross your fingers - you light a candle - that when the firing begins only the bad guys will be filled with lead and no innocents will get caught in the cross fire upping the potential murder count even higher. You hope and pray that none of these armed people get drunk or stoned or just plain angry or pissed off at anybody and decide to pull out their manhood and settle up a score.

That is not the United States of America. That is Nightmare America.
Click to expand...

lefties love a society where only the hoods and the state are armed. this will cause the masses to cede rights to the government to protect them from the armed hoods.

gun haters or those who whine about armed citizens tend to be fearful of guns and afraid of what would happen if they were forced to bear arms. so they project their fear onto others and assume others would be as dangerous and incompetent as they are when it comes to guns
 
Goshin said:
Utter nonsense. :lamo

I wouldn't kill someone over this idiotic argument, and I seriously doubt anyone else here is that stupid either.

I've HAD heated arguments about politics, while standing around in a group of men who were ALL armed. Nobody got shot. Nobody pointed a gun at anyone.

Just because you fear YOU have no self-control doesnt mean everyone lacks it.
Click to expand...

Well there we have it and we need to discuss such things no further. Goshin would never shoot anybody in an argument. case closed. :roll:

Attacking me does not elevate your ridiculous point or give it merit it does not otherwise possess.

If that is the type of America you want to live in - that is your choice. I would leave if the rabid right wing gets its way on this issue.

We are allowing a fringe group of extremists to dominate the discussion of firearms in America and have been allowing it for the last two decades or more.

I am damn sick and tired of reading how some gun nut has to have the same weapons the US military has because someday somehow he just may have to go toe to toe with the army and that is what the Second Amendments means.

What horse puckey!!!!!!
 
Goshin said:
Utter nonsense. :lamo

I wouldn't kill someone over this idiotic argument, and I seriously doubt anyone else here is that stupid either.

I've HAD heated arguments about politics, while standing around in a group of men who were ALL armed. Nobody got shot. Nobody pointed a gun at anyone.

Just because you fear YOU have no self-control doesnt mean everyone lacks it.
Click to expand...
gun control tends to be a symptom of those who are terrified of making personal safety an individual responsibility and duty
 
haymarket said:
So I guess the answer to my question about your theory being applied to Japan is NO - it does not apply there. Now lets look at your excu... er ... 'reasons why it does not apply there.

Japan has minorities. Japan has gangs. Japan even has organized crime.

And what is your point about minorities anyway? Canada may be one of the most diverse nations in the world and they have 1/3 of the murder we have here.

Is there some magical property about the fact that it is an island and its borders are water on all sides rather than land and water like ours is? I have never heard that before. Please do elaborate on that interesting theory if you could.
Click to expand...

Racial diversity in Canada and Japan? Are you kidding me?

4. Changes in Ethnic and Racial Diversity - Cultural Diversity in Canada: The Social Construction of Racial Difference

Japan Ethnic groups - Demographics

The control of immigration as well as "contraband" is much easier with secure borders and defined ports of entry, thus islands are easier to defend and harder to escape for criminals. I notice that you chose to ignore the "cultural" differences in reporting crime that I pointed out. One of the key aspects of a criminal career is avoiding being caught, thus U.S. crime tends to be concentrated in certain well defined areas, that offer much less chance of getting caught.

Project America: Crime: Prison Population: Prison Population by Race
 
Last edited:
TurtleDude said:
lefties love a society where only the hoods and the state are armed. this will cause the masses to cede rights to the government to protect them from the armed hoods.

gun haters or those who whine about armed citizens tend to be fearful of guns and afraid of what would happen if they were forced to bear arms. so they project their fear onto others and assume others would be as dangerous and incompetent as they are when it comes to guns
Click to expand...

Turtle that kind of BS is not as useful as a fifty pound bag of garden manure and is half as honest.

I have no problem with people owning guns. If you want a gun for your home or business or sports and recreational use that is great and I am supportive of that.

Got that Turtle? I DO NOT WANT A SOCIETY WHERE ONLY THE HOODS AND STATE ARE ARMED.

So lets flush that stupid comment down the toilet with the other content that belongs there.

You know damn well that nobody here wants the stupid strawman perversion you just described. So why don't you get some intellectual integrity and knock off the frankenstein monster straw men for once?
 
haymarket said:
Well there we have it and we need to discuss such things no further. Goshin would never shoot anybody in an argument. case closed. :roll:

Attacking me does not elevate your ridiculous point or give it merit it does not otherwise possess.

If that is the type of America you want to live in - that is your choice. I would leave if the rabid right wing gets its way on this issue.

We are allowing a fringe group of extremists to dominate the discussion of firearms in America and have been allowing it for the last two decades or more.

I am damn sick and tired of reading how some gun nut has to have the same weapons the US military has because someday somehow he just may have to go toe to toe with the army and that is what the Second Amendments means.

What horse puckey!!!!!!
Click to expand...


Sorry you feel that way. You're too late of course... lots of people in lots of states carry guns, and they don't behave like you're projecting. Lots of people in many states have military small-arms... I have military small-arms... and 99.98% of us never misuse them on our fellow man.

Lots of luck to you in whatever country you move to.... where ya going, btw? Cuba or Venezuela? :lamo
 
haymarket said:
Turtle that kind of BS is not as useful as a fifty pound bag of garden manure and is half as honest.

I have no problem with people owning guns. If you want a gun for your home or business or sports and recreational use that is great and I am supportive of that.

Got that Turtle? I DO NOT WANT A SOCIETY WHERE ONLY THE HOODS AND STATE ARE ARMED.

So lets flush that stupid comment down the toilet with the other content that belongs there.

You know damn well that nobody here wants the stupid strawman perversion you just described. So why don't you get some intellectual integrity and knock off the frankenstein monster straw men for once?
Click to expand...

I don't really buy what you claim. And yes, many lefties want what I claim they do. once you believe that banning some guns will stop some crime you pretty much have accepted the koolade that banning more guns will stop more crime

and once you believe that "public safety" is more important than gun rights, you have accepted the fact that our rights is subordinate to "the public good",

and I have been dealing with gun haters for almost 40 years. I know what they think and what they want
 
Goshin said:
Sorry you feel that way. You're too late of course... lots of people in lots of states carry guns, and they don't behave like you're projecting. Lots of people in many states have military small-arms... I have military small-arms... and 99.98% of us never misuse them on our fellow man.

Lots of luck to you in whatever country you move to.... where ya going, btw? Cuba or Venezuela? :lamo
Click to expand...

I realize that the pendulum has swung wide to the far right on this issue. The extremists have won - for now. They even have their own subculture to nurture and sustain them in their ideology. If my nation is stolen from me by the radical right wing who would destroy it and pervert it I would consider moving just a few miles across the Detroit River to Canada.
 
Last edited:
TurtleDude said:
I don't really buy what you claim. And yes, many lefties want what I claim they do. once you believe that banning some guns will stop some crime you pretty much have accepted the koolade that banning more guns will stop more crime

and once you believe that "public safety" is more important than gun rights, you have accepted the fact that our rights is subordinate to "the public good",

and I have been dealing with gun haters for almost 40 years. I know what they think and what they want
Click to expand...

Of course you do not buy what I claim. You are a fringe extremist on this issue and you can only survive if you characterize anyone who disagrees with you as having the polar opposite views. You have to build a perverted strawman because you cannot honestly deal with the nuances of real positions.

And you justify this god complex by telling us you really know what people think and want. Like now you can freakin read minds for heavens sakes. You must since you do a really poor job at reading what people actually tell you they believe.

But this is really a red letter day Turtle. You have publicly proclaimed that you will NOT deal with the actual views people here espouse, you can only deal with what exists in your own mind as you "really know" what people believe despite their actual words.

Amazing:roll:
 
Last edited:
haymarket said:
I realize that the pendulum has swung wide to the far right on this issue. The extremists have won - for now. If my nation is stolen from me by the radical right wing who would destroy it and pervert it I would consider moving just a few miles across the Detroit River to Canada.
Click to expand...

far right on this issue? OMG is that pathetic.

the standard position in this nation was no federal gun control. It was only that turd FDR that started that crap
 
haymarket said:
Of course you do not buy what I claim. You are a fringe extremist on this issue and you can only survive if you characterize anyone who disagrees with you as having the polar opposite views. You have to build a perverted strawman because you cannot honestly deal with the nuances of real positions.

And you justify this god complex by telling us you really know what people think and want. Like now you can freakin read minds for heavens sakes. You must since you do a really poor job at reading what people actually tell you they believe.
Click to expand...

fringe extremist whose position is consistent with most law professors, the founding fathers and most people who actually understand this issue

there are only two motivations behind gun controllers

ignorance or dishonesty

you proved your views on guns with your idiotic suggestion that the dead victims of mass shootings be honored as MARTYRS of the SECOND AMENDMENT.
 
TurtleDude said:
far right on this issue? OMG is that pathetic.

the standard position in this nation was no federal gun control. It was only that turd FDR that started that crap
Click to expand...

You live in centuries that have turned everyone to worm food Turtle. My calendar was 2012... not 1812. How about yours?
 
haymarket said:
Turtle that kind of BS is not as useful as a fifty pound bag of garden manure and is half as honest.

I have no problem with people owning guns. If you want a gun for your home or business or sports and recreational use that is great and I am supportive of that.

Got that Turtle? I DO NOT WANT A SOCIETY WHERE ONLY THE HOODS AND STATE ARE ARMED.

So lets flush that stupid comment down the toilet with the other content that belongs there.

You know damn well that nobody here wants the stupid strawman perversion you just described. So why don't you get some intellectual integrity and knock off the frankenstein monster straw men for once?
Click to expand...

In Aurora, CO it is ILLEGAL to carry firearms in the theater, thus ONLY the killer was armed. You can duck, bob and weave but that is the law there. To say that this had no effect on that being the chosen killing ground is absurd. The whimpy Batman killer made no stand against LEOs, he simply surrendered. Many assert, and I tend to agree, that ANY armed resistance would have likely stopped his brief assault and murder spree, or at least made him pause and seek cover long enough to allow many more to escape injury and death. When you are up to your ass in alligators it is hard to remember that your mission was simply to drain the swamp. ;-)
 
haymarket said:
You live in centuries that have turned everyone to worm food Turtle. My calendar was 2012... not 1812. How about yours?
Click to expand...

its amazing how the far left hate the history of our nation and the rights patriots cherish. I remember someone noting that anything that makes a person less dependent on government is anathema to the collectivist left

guns make people less dependent on government, hence the loony left hates guns
 
Defining the other as "extreme" is a time-honored method of extremists.
 
TurtleDude said:
fringe extremist whose position is consistent with most law professors, the founding fathers and most people who actually understand this issue

there are only two motivations behind gun controllers

ignorance or dishonesty

you proved your views on guns with your idiotic suggestion that the dead victims of mass shootings be honored as MARTYRS of the SECOND AMENDMENT.
Click to expand...

And that offends you because you have totally and completely immersed yourself in gun culture where by your own admissions guns are some sort of pure good like a church sacrament.

Its beyond perverted.

I wonder what the sainted Founders would have done had some nut tried to kill them at Constitution Hall and succeeded in taking a dozen of them out?

So don't whine to me about the sainted Founders being on your side.

There is no Constitutional right as defined by the Supreme Court to have any weapon you want to have. You know that and I know that. So do not pretend there is.
 
TurtleDude said:
its amazing how the far left hate the history of our nation and the rights patriots cherish. I remember someone noting that anything that makes a person less dependent on government is anathema to the collectivist left

guns make people less dependent on government, hence the loony left hates guns
Click to expand...

You can only argue by demonizing and perverting the views of those who you disagree with. That is a sing of intellectual fraud of the worst sort as well as a bankruptcy of integrity and honesty. And you just admitted it by telling the word that you ignore what people say because you really know what they want.

And we make fun of people in tin foil hats who claim they can do the same thing. Amazing.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top Bottom