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Thread: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    And, there is the problem. How do we identify people who are likely to go off the deep end and start killing people?
    And, if they're at that point, is preventing them from having guns going to stop them?
    No. But a 10 and 2 of Haldol and Ativan in the ass might. Once you identify the risk, you can pursue involuntary commitment procedures.

    How do we identify all of them? I guess first we have to disallow people from being reclusive. Most people who are out in the open about their bat**** crazy violent schemes get scooped up and dealt with. Happens all the time all over the country, really, just do some shadowing in an ER sometime. Most crazy folks are terrible at concealing the risks they pose, and law enforcement deals with them regularly. Some folks are very secretive and so I guess to identify the ones who would otherwise successfully carry out an attack requires banning reclusive, introverted or secretive tendencies altogether. Maybe we can ramp up our government social worker force and have all people be subject to monthly home-based mental health assessments?

    I'm being sarcastic. There's no way to prevent the occasional tragedy. Just prepare yourself for the unpredictable and spread the word that a well-armed populace is the best defense against both tyranny and anarchy.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    And you know that time on target is only one aspect of the equation. You always anticipate the shot, recover from recoil, and recover the mark anyway. Any decent shooter can acquire the target in a reasonable time.
    What are you talking about?! I'm talking about the amount of time it takes to execute a mag change, reacquire your target, then engage. You are talking about the action of shooting. Time on target is the entire argument against these drums. Plain and simple. When a person can look through their sights for 100 round vice 20, its a huge advantage.
    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Besides, drum mags are more likely to jam anyway.....but you knew that.
    Depends on the quality of the drum, maintenance, lubrication, etc. Just like any other mag.
    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Nope, sure doesn't. You are arguing that any "advantage" is a reason to ban something, I'm saying it's not that big of a deal and it isn't. Frankly if a gun jams it's a disadvantage over the other one, we can't ban gun jams or require that they jam every 20 rounds or so. Frankly it's as I've said, the burden of proof is extremely heavy upon those who want to restrict a right, and there are 1) Not enough drum mags out there to be a factor 2) It's not some kind of unfair advantage that makes the gun a "super weapon" and 3) Doesn't of itself endanger anyone.
    No, I'm arguing that this particular advantage needs to be banned. Cops can't match it, it has no prac app to the real world, and doesn't affect the rights of a citizen to purchase a firearm. You still didn't answer why M203 grenade launcher attachments shouldn't be legal if this is.
    A mag change is the equivalent of a jam ie it is a stoppage of fire. The aforementioned timeframe of about 5-9 seconds is an eternity when speaking of a stoppage of fire in a tactical situation. That is why we teach "talking guns". Where one crew serve machine gun fires at a faster rate than the other with the other firing slower and picking up the pauses of his partner. When his partner runs out, he picks up the pace of firing until the reload is completed. Then his partner picks up his pace of fire until both are firing again. We drill and drill this so that there is no interruption in suppression. When you have defenseless, panicked people running in the open, that 5-9 seconds allows them enough time to run, unafraid, to the nearest exit. It also allows them to time his mag changes. With a drum, the guy is just meleeing them. Which he did. I'm not saying this definitely would have kept him from killing so many. But it couldn't have hurt. We shouldn't make it easy for him to do this. With a 100 round drum, it is.
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Neomalthusian View Post
    No. But a 10 and 2 of Haldol and Ativan in the ass might. Once you identify the risk, you can pursue involuntary commitment procedures.

    How do we identify all of them? I guess first we have to disallow people from being reclusive. Most people who are out in the open about their bat**** crazy violent schemes get scooped up and dealt with. Happens all the time all over the country, really, just do some shadowing in an ER sometime. Most crazy folks are terrible at concealing the risks they pose, and law enforcement deals with them regularly. Some folks are very secretive and so I guess to identify the ones who would otherwise successfully carry out an attack requires banning reclusive, introverted or secretive tendencies altogether. Maybe we can ramp up our government social worker force and have all people be subject to monthly home-based mental health assessments?

    I'm being sarcastic. There's no way to prevent the occasional tragedy. Just prepare yourself for the unpredictable and spread the word that a well-armed populace is the best defense against both tyranny and anarchy.
    That sounds like a plan.
    That, and recognizing that there is no such thing as perfect safety, nor a perfect way to identify potential threats of any kind.
    "Donald Trump is a phony, a fraud... [he's] playing the American public for suckers." Mitt Romney

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    why don't you tell me that if 100 round beta C mags are banned, why the gun banners won't go to 30 round bans, 20 round bans down to the 6 rounds Scumbag Schummer was proposing when his party took an ass-kicking in 94 because of the 10 round limit

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Romulus View Post
    And what is the wild west known for? Oh, and have you ever heard of Michael Robert Ryan? GB has a higher rate of violent crime than the U.S., they also have crazed gunmen who commit massacres.
    LOL So the old wild west in your opinion is 1987? What the wild west was known for was mostly myth perpetuated by Buffalo Bill and his wild west shows and a few novels. Most towns especially in towns where cowboys would come after a cattle drive had gun ordinances like TD said. So my point was those ordinances had a purpose and that was to prevent gun violence and no one back then used the second amendment as an excuse to keep their guns when they were in town because everyone knew that people were a lot safer when guns weren't present.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why don't you tell me that if 100 round beta C mags are banned, why the gun banners won't go to 30 round bans, 20 round bans down to the 6 rounds Scumbag Schummer was proposing when his party took an ass-kicking in 94 because of the 10 round limit
    10 rounds is fine..for a handgun.

    rifles should be 20 rounds.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Furiounova View Post
    Interesting experiment today. one of my employees got emotional this morning about the shooting and went on a rant about better gun laws. I briefly explained they are a waste of time but she countered with a strange claim: that a baseball bat was good enough for self defense. I dropped it so she could get back to work. Around lunch I stopped at c-store to get ice.....and a shiny new water pistol. (job is residential remodeling)

    After lunch I gave her an extension pole, walked about ten paces away and told her to try and hit me with it. She was perplexed until I showed her the water gun. She then said "that isn't fair" so I said I was uncomfortable with using a real gun for the experiment. I then explained that from that moment until the end of the day, if she could even touch me with the pole (extends to 12 feet long) before I could hit her with water she would get a paid day off tomorrow.

    She made a single attempt about an hour later and she ended up swinging blind because of the water hitting her face. She threw the pole down and stomped off. She did admit the point was made but she is so upset because she feels helpless. I think this is how many people feel and their emotions trump reason.
    You're the man. There's nothing else to say.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    why don't you tell me that if 100 round beta C mags are banned, why the gun banners won't go to 30 round bans, 20 round bans down to the 6 rounds Scumbag Schummer was proposing when his party took an ass-kicking in 94 because of the 10 round limit
    Is this directed at me?
    “Mr. Speaker, I once again find myself compelled to vote against the annual budget resolution for a very simple reason: it makes government bigger.” ― Ron Paul
    Timid men prefer the calm of despotism to the tempestuous sea of Liberty. – Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    A local ordinance huh? Then why wasn't Chicago allowed to ban guns in it's city limits? Gun crimes and homicides don't seem to be decreasing there much.

    England had less crime, Canada had less crime, hell almost every civilized country in the world has less crime than the US. Why is that?
    You are wrong. According to wiki:

    International comparison

    The manner in which America's crime rate compared to other countries of similar wealth and development depends on the nature of the crime used in the comparison. Overall crime statistic comparisons are difficult to conduct, as the definition of crimes significant enough to be published in annual reports varies across countries. Thus an agency in a foreign country may include crimes in its annual reports which the United States omits.

    Some countries such as Canada, however, have similar definitions of what constitutes a violent crime, and nearly all countries had the same definition of the characteristics that constitutes a homicide. Overall the total crime rate of the United States is similar to that of other highly developed countries. Some types of reported property crime in the U.S. survey as lower than in Germany or Canada, yet the homicide rate in the United States is substantially higher.
    If you compare the U.S. to Europe and Anglo countries, not only is are overall violent crime rate lower...it is the lowest!

    MEASURES OF GUN OWNERSHIP
    LEVELS FOR MACRO-LEVEL
    CRIME AND VIOLENCE RESEARCH


    In Britain based on year 2000 statistics supplied by UK Home Office the following percentages of the population of these countries were exposed to crime. Among the countries compared the USA has the lowest number of incidents. The UK and Australia do not allow ownership of handguns. About 3% of the Germany population own firearms.
    The lowest rate - for the year 200 period in the USA there were 11,605,751 incidents of reported crime based on a population of 300,000,000 (06) - 3.87% of the population was exposed to crime
    Australia which does not allow ownership of handguns had a reported crime rate of 1,431,929 based on a population of 20,000,000 - 7.16% of the population was exposed to crime.
    Germany with a population of 82 million (05) has a reported 6.264,723 crimes or 7.64% of the population was exposed to crime.
    In Britain there were 5,170,843 incidents of reported crime to the police based on a population of 60, 587,000 (06) - 8.5% of the population was exposed to crime.
    Highest rate - New Zealand with a population of 4,000,000 (06) had a reported crime with 427,230 incidents - 10.68% of the population was exposed to crime.
    Yes, we have more homicides, and we can discuss who it is exactly in our society that is killing each other, but I don't want to be called a racist for pointing out statistical fact. Let's just say we have an urban youth gang problem in large cities.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    10 rounds is fine..for a handgun.

    rifles should be 20 rounds.
    given how little you know about firearms compared to me I don't think you are in any position to tell me what is the proper number or rounds

    given most Police Departments issue 17 round handguns, we shouldn't even talk about OTHER CIVILIANS having less ability to defend themselves that state civilian EMPLOYEES.

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