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Thread: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Could you really? I wouldn't have the first clue where or how to obtain a gun illegally.
    start at your local greyhound bus station.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Eh, there are plenty of "bush league" competitions out there, some are paramilitary based. I know that drum mags are for suppression but it doesn't really get into the realm of extreme danger for the average gun owner to have over anything else, IOW a weapon is only as dangerous as the handler.
    Cite a competition where 100 round drums are used that is IPSC, USPSA, IDPA, etc recognized and I will cede this point. You won't find it btw.
    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    Actually no. I think for myself and base it on the fundamentals of liberty and rights, for something to be banned within those rights there is a heavy burden of proof that has to be held to account, for instance large magazines are as you've put it and I frankly agree not the tactical advantage the anti-gun side claims them to be, casual shooters as has been pointed out would be better served with banana clips or mid-sized magazines anyway. I don't base rights upon need however.
    Large magazines allow longer time on target. No other way to spin it, no other way to say it. You can argue semantics of mag changes all you want. The average mag change takes approximately 3-5 seconds. That is about 9-15 more rounds the shooter gets off with a large mag. Not to mention the time needed to settle back into shooting position, reacquire targets, and start pulling again. You're looking at about 20 less rounds the individual shoots due to that mag change.
    What right do we have to own a 100 round drum or body armor? I'm not saying we should restrict guns. I'm saying we should restrict an accessory that has no practical application in the civilian world. Should 203 grenade launchers be legal to sell? They are an AR platform accessory. There is a fine line between "rights" and empowering someone to be dangerous. Once of the main roles of the Federal gov't is to protect the people. I don't agree with laws that protect me from myself. This isn't one of those. This is protecting people from other people who would do them harm. Again, there is no other application in the civilian world where a 100 round drum is needed.
    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    I shoot, I understand that you are military and I know that pressure changes aren't as easy as firing range changes
    This......
    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    however they aren't quite as difficult as you make them out to be. Multiple mags versus large mags is not IMO such a large gap as to require a ban on high capacity.
    disproves this.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Could you really? I wouldn't have the first clue where or how to obtain a gun illegally.
    Really? This seems pretty obvious.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Bull****. I can get a gun within a few hours illegally if I wanted to without setting foot in a gun show. If people want to use a gun for murder, as was the case here, they'll find a way to get the gun somehow. It's just like drugs. People find em, and no matter how many laws are thrown into the mix, they keep finding them.
    The average criminal can get an illegal gun in less time than it takes a person to legally buy one, they know who has what already. It took me 30 minutes to buy mine legally because of the paperwork and background checks and cost me multiple hundreds. The average crook can buy a filed gun for probably about 40$ in five minutes. Oh, and my city/state didn't have a waiting period, much like most "psst, come here" shops.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    Could you really? I wouldn't have the first clue where or how to obtain a gun illegally.
    Yep, no problem. If you know how to get your hands on some hard illegal drugs like crack, meth, or heroin, or you know someone who does (and I assume that most people do know at least one person who has battled a serious drug problem), then you can get a gun illegally pretty easily, too.

    ****, if you know the location of a halfway house in your area, you could probably figure out how to get a gun. All you have to do is figure out which guy nearby said halfway house is the local dealer and get him to move you down along the line to get the gun. You gotta do it without making yourself look like a cop or getting yourself killed, of course, but it's not like committing crimes is a risk-free venture.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The average criminal can get an illegal gun in less time than it takes a person to legally buy one, they know who has what already. It took me 30 minutes to buy mine legally because of the paperwork and background checks and cost me multiple hundreds. The average crook can buy a filed gun for probably about 40$ in five minutes. Oh, and my city/state didn't have a waiting period, much like most "psst, come here" shops.
    I couldn't get one in 5 minutes, or even 30 minutes, be it legally or illegally. My commute would be way longer.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Tucker Case View Post
    Yep, no problem. If you know how to get your hands on some hard illegal drugs like crack, meth, or heroin, or you know someone who does (and I assume that most people do know at least one person who has battled a serious drug problem), then you can get a gun illegally pretty easily, too.

    ****, if you know the location of a halfway house in your area, you could probably figure out how to get a gun. All you have to do is figure out which guy nearby said halfway house is the local dealer and get him to move you down along the line to get the gun. You gotta do it without making yourself look like a cop or getting yourself killed, of course, but it's not like committing crimes is a risk-free venture.
    This reminds me of "Office Space."

    "Just give me the name of one drug dealer, I have good networking skills."


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by LaMidRighter View Post
    The average criminal can get an illegal gun in less time than it takes a person to legally buy one, they know who has what already. It took me 30 minutes to buy mine legally because of the paperwork and background checks and cost me multiple hundreds. The average crook can buy a filed gun for probably about 40$ in five minutes. Oh, and my city/state didn't have a waiting period, much like most "psst, come here" shops.
    Which is why this is a bad test case for gun control. If you're intent on shooting up a movie premiere, you're going to do it. You'll get a gun and you'll do it. Laws don't stop criminals.

    To be honest, I really see the voter ID laws the same way. If you really want to commit voter fraud, you'll get a fake ID or 3. It's not that hard.


    Quote Originally Posted by Jetboogieman View Post
    This issue has been plowed more times than Paris Hilton.
    Quote Originally Posted by Oborosen View Post
    Too bad we have to observe human rights.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by rocket88 View Post
    This reminds me of "Office Space."

    "Just give me the name of one drug dealer, I have good networking skills."
    It's pretty damned accurate, though. Most people have no clue how easy it can be to break the law.
    Tucker Case - Tard magnet.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by MarineTpartier View Post
    Cite a competition where 100 round drums are used that is IPSC, USPSA, IDPA, etc recognized and I will cede this point. You won't find it btw.
    Which is why I specifically mentioned "bush league" there are plenty of unaffiliated competitions out there, not all of them are known. Hell, if a group of people want to compete on private property that's enough reason for me.

    Large magazines allow longer time on target. No other way to spin it, no other way to say it. You can argue semantics of mag changes all you want. The average mag change takes approximately 3-5 seconds. That is about 9-15 more rounds the shooter gets off with a large mag. Not to mention the time needed to settle back into shooting position, reacquire targets, and start pulling again. You're looking at about 20 less rounds the individual shoots due to that mag change.
    What right do we have to own a 100 round drum or body armor? I'm not saying we should restrict guns. I'm saying we should restrict an accessory that has no practical application in the civilian world. Should 203 grenade launchers be legal to sell? They are an AR platform accessory. There is a fine line between "rights" and empowering someone to be dangerous. Once of the main roles of the Federal gov't is to protect the people. I don't agree with laws that protect me from myself. This isn't one of those. This is protecting people from other people who would do them harm. Again, there is no other application in the civilian world where a 100 round drum is needed.
    And you know that time on target is only one aspect of the equation. You always anticipate the shot, recover from recoil, and recover the mark anyway. Any decent shooter can acquire the target in a reasonable time. Besides, drum mags are more likely to jam anyway.....but you knew that.
    This......

    disproves this.
    Nope, sure doesn't. You are arguing that any "advantage" is a reason to ban something, I'm saying it's not that big of a deal and it isn't. Frankly if a gun jams it's a disadvantage over the other one, we can't ban gun jams or require that they jam every 20 rounds or so. Frankly it's as I've said, the burden of proof is extremely heavy upon those who want to restrict a right, and there are 1) Not enough drum mags out there to be a factor 2) It's not some kind of unfair advantage that makes the gun a "super weapon" and 3) Doesn't of itself endanger anyone.
    Neither side in an argument can find the truth when both make an absolute claim on it.

    LMR

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