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Thread: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    I didn't come up with this idea, you did.
    No. I asked you the question. But reality tells us that there is no such right.

    Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    For ten years - 1994 to 2004 - there existed a federal ban on certain weapons. The Supreme Court did not throw that out.

    States today have bans on such weapons. The Supreme Court has not thrown those out either.

    If your claim was true - and one could own any weapon they wanted to own - the Court would have acted to throw these restrictions out as unconstitutional. But they did not.

    http://rense.com/general17/supremecourtrejects.htm

    WASHINGTON (Reuters) - The U.S. Supreme Court on Monday rejected a constitutional challenge to a 1990 New Jersey law that banned assault weapons. Those challenging the law included a group called the Coalition of New Jersey Sportsmen, two firearms manufacturers, a licensed dealer and individual firearm owners. They argued the ban was unconstitutionally vague and violated their constitutional rights to free speech, free association and equal protection.

    A federal judge and then a U.S. appeals court upheld the law. Violators of the ban face between three and five years in prison. In appealing to the Supreme Court, the opponents said the law covered 66 named models and "substantially identical" firearms. They questioned whether it provided sufficient notice to firearms owners and adequate standards for the police. New Jersey defended the law, saying it was not intended to cover firearms used for legitimate hunting or target shooting. It said the federal government had banned the imports of 58 types of assault weapons and had outlawed such weapons.

    The state said no compelling reason existed for the Supreme Court to hear the case and added that the law did not violate any constitutional right. The justices denied the appeal without any comment or dissent.
    there it is for you. The state or feds can indeed restrict weapons. There is no recognized Constitutional right to own any weapon you want to own.
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-23-12 at 01:20 AM.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Ok, I'll try one more time.


    We can have ANY weapon we want; it's our Constitutional Right.


    This time, either you agree with me or I will reject your premise as nonsense.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    No. I asked you the question. But reality tells us that there is no such right.

    Federal Assault Weapons Ban - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

    For ten years - 1994 to 2004 - there existed a federal ban on certain weapons. The Supreme Court did not throw that out.

    States today have bans on such weapons. The Supreme Court has not thrown those out either.

    If your claim was true - and one could own any weapon they wanted to own - the Court would have acted to throw these restrictions out as unconstitutional. But they did not.

    Supreme Court Rejects Challenge To Assault Weapon Ban
    What the SC has said is that the 2d Amendment confers an individual right to own a weapon, but that does not mean that there are no limits on the right. It just means that any limits that are imposed have to survive a strict scrutiny test. Just like we have a right to free speech, but there are a few exceptions where speech can be limited.
    Last edited by AdamT; 07-23-12 at 01:22 AM.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    What the SC has said is that the 2d Amendment confers an individual right to own a weapon, but that does not mean that there are no limits on the right. It just means that any limits that are imposed have to survive a strict scrutiny test. Just like we have a right to free speech, but there are a few exceptions where speech can be limited.
    Exactly. And what we argue about is the exceptions and the limits.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Ok, I'll try one more time.


    We can have ANY weapon we want; it's our Constitutional Right.


    This time, either you agree with me or I will reject your premise as nonsense.
    I just gave you several factual sources which state without a doubt you are wrong.

    You can reject anything you want to reject. Faith in a self imposed belief system permits you to do that.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Ok, you got me.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Ok, you got me.
    So now that we have established that, all we are arguing about is what limits are reasonable and should be allowed.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Because if the Court does not recognize your claimed right - then mister - you ain't got it pure and simple.
    I don't believe that is how it works.
    “Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.”
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So now that we have established that, all we are arguing about is what limits are reasonable and should be allowed.
    Fighter jets including missiles, subs and bombers are ok - but no nukes.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Ok, I'll try one more time.


    We can have ANY weapon we want; it's our Constitutional Right.


    This time, either you agree with me or I will reject your premise as nonsense.
    Can you buy a modern tank and the shells that make it effective?
    “The people do no want virtue; but they are the dupes of pretended patriots” : Elbridge Gerry of Mass; Constitutional Convention 1787

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