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Thread: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    No, you said the extremists have won, for now. Even if I agree with some change in gun regulations, characterizing the status-quo (remember, I mentioned that before) as extreme is nutbag-level analysis.

    I'm not turning any accusation back on you. I'm pointing out how ridiculous it is to consider the status-quo extreme when the vast majority of people would only like minor changes.
    To say that the right wing and gun culture has won on this issue is simple reality of American politics.

    The status quo can be extreme as history tells us over and over and over. Was placing Japanese Americans in concentration camps extreme? I think most would say it was. But it was also the status quo for its time.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by zgoldsmith23 View Post
    Vehicles are deadlier?
    Much harder to deploy.


    Quote Originally Posted by AdamT View Post
    You just want to be able to buy any erectile disfunction toy you can lay your hands on and could not give a **** if innocent children are mowed down in movie theaters.

    Again ... to borrow your argument style.
    The thought of being able to carry an AR15 into a movie theater, secure it in a rack at my hand, and then kick back? The thought of looking over and seeing Bob from the block over with his trick in the rack? Grandma with some nice engraved double barrel?

    **** yeah. It would solve any struggle my body may have with erectile dysfunction. I would feel damn secure too.

    You want proper regulation? Define some classes of arms. Define proficiency at the arm. There are many things you can reasonably do to regulate by not infringe upon the right of ownership or bearing.
    Last edited by Aberration; 07-23-12 at 12:42 AM.
    “Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.”
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    Racial minorities are less than 13% in Canada and 1.5% in Japan. I posted PLENTY of U.S. crime statistics to "prove" that VAST cultural/ethnic/racial differences exist. You are simply playing games. If you seriously doubt that crime is equally reported and police receive similar witness coopertaion in "the hood" then you don't read much. Look into these things for yourself. You are getting boring with your ENDLESS claims that nothing is ever shown or proved to YOUR personal satisfaction. It is YOUR turn to show that minorities in the U.S. do not account for a HUGE percentage of the crime and the prison population, as I have shown you the RESULTS using U.S. gov't provided statistics. You see U.S. crime is FAR higher compared to Japan and Canada, yet offer NO rational explanation for the difference, certainly not guns alone can account for it, and RECREATIONAL DRUGS are certainly a U.S. cultural issue, whether YOU choose to accept it or not. I offered back-up links for EVERY position, you simply poo poo them as "not sufficient", so please STFU until YOU can prove different.
    Thank you for admitting that Canada and Japan have minority populations.

    I do not understand why you expect me to go off on some rant about minorities in the USA and crime. What is that suppose to prove? Are you attempting to say that it is minorities who are to blame for crime and without them we would have the same rate as Japan? Is that your point?
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    To say that the right wing and gun culture has won on this issue is simple reality of American politics.

    The status quo can be extreme as history tells us over and over and over. Was placing Japanese Americans in concentration camps extreme? I think most would say it was. But it was also the status quo for its time.
    Again with the history. Let's just keep the context TODAY and not add different issues and a subjective interpretation to cloud the issue. At least you have given up the "I'm talking about Turtle being extreme" argument, as you CLEARLY referred to the status quo:


    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    I realize that the pendulum has swung wide to the far right on this issue. The extremists have won - for now. They even have their own subculture to nurture and sustain them in their ideology. If my nation is stolen from me by the radical right wing who would destroy it and pervert it I would consider moving just a few miles across the Detroit River to Canada.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    So by your leap of logic the status quo cannot be extreme?

    So, one would assume that you want MASSIVE changes to gun law in order to reach what you would consider "middle ground". That's what defining the status-quo as extreme is all about - making your own extreme position out to be the middle ground. I know, I'm an extreme environmentalist.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 07-23-12 at 12:46 AM.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    Much harder to deploy.




    The thought of being able to carry an AR15 into a movie theater, secure it in a rack at my hand, and then kick back? The thought of looking over and seeing Bob from the block over with his trick in the rack? Grandma with some nice engraved double barrel?

    **** yeah. It would solve any struggle my body may have with erectile dysfunction. I would feel damn secure too.
    Thank you for your honesty. Perhaps that is your idea of heaven but it is my idea of hell on earth. And people here say that the extremists are not winning on this issue.

    Your post proves this clearly and without any doubt or ambiguity. Thank you.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by ecofarm View Post
    Again with the history. Let's just keep the context TODAY and not add different issues and a subjective interpretation to cloud the issue. At least you have given up the "I'm talking about Turtle being extreme" argument, as you CLEARLY referred to the status quo:







    So, one would assume that you want MASSIVE changes to gun law in order to reach what you would consider "middle ground".
    What I want is an honest and open national discussion so we as Americans can discuss how we can respect the rights of the Second Amendment and speak to the terrible horrors that the murder rate with guns scream at us in the headlines.

    I do not propose to be the KING and wave my scepter and make law for the nation. I would hope that we as a people can do that together.

    There is no such thing as a Constitutional right recognized by the Supreme Court to have any firearm you want. That right does not exist. So what we argue about is what is acceptable in our society. That is a conversation we badly need to have.
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-23-12 at 12:47 AM.
    __________________________________________________ _
    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What I want is an honest and open national discussion so we as Americans can discuss how we can respect the rights of the Second Amendment and speak to the terrible horrors that the murder rate with guns scream at us in the headlines.
    It seems many people just want to scream headlines.

    I do not propose to be the KING and wave my scepter and make law for the nation. I would hope that we as a people can do that together.
    What does this have to do with anything? Some people would like us to decide to live by 11th century rules, that doesn't make wanting to any less nuts.

    There is no such thing as a Constitutional right recognized by the Supreme Court to have any firearm you want. That right does not exist.
    A desperate strawman that you cannot honestly expect to be engaged.
    Last edited by ecofarm; 07-23-12 at 12:51 AM.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Thank you for your honesty. Perhaps that is your idea of heaven but it is my idea of hell on earth. And people here say that the extremists are not winning on this issue.

    Your post proves this clearly and without any doubt or ambiguity. Thank you.
    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    What I want is an honest and open national discussion so we as Americans can discuss how we can respect the rights of the Second Amendment and speak to the terrible horrors that the murder rate with guns scream at us in the headlines.

    I do not propose to be the KING and wave my scepter and make law for the nation. I would hope that we as a people can do that together.

    There is no such thing as a Constitutional right recognized by the Supreme Court to have any firearm you want. That right does not exist. So what we argue about is what is acceptable in our society. That is a conversation we badly need to have.
    You don't want open and honest. I just gave you open and honest. You immediately disregarded it. I have been around large groups of armed people, and I have never felt unsafe. Why would anyone feel unsafe around someone in a theater? Would you feel safe if it was some police officer? Sure are a lot of ex-LEO who still stay proficient. What about ex-Military? What about the rancher who has one daily in his truck? What about the trucker who regularly has one in his cab?

    If proficiency is the concern, then there are reasonable ways to deal with proficiency.

    If you have just a down right objection to certain arms under certain conditions than you are the one not being honest and open, or willing to discuss a middle ground.
    Last edited by Aberration; 07-23-12 at 12:52 AM.
    “Tyranny is defined as that which is legal for the government but illegal for the citizenry.”
    ― Thomas Jefferson

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Thank you for admitting that Canada and Japan have minority populations.

    I do not understand why you expect me to go off on some rant about minorities in the USA and crime. What is that suppose to prove? Are you attempting to say that it is minorities who are to blame for crime and without them we would have the same rate as Japan? Is that your point?
    I am saying AGAIN that crazed serial/mass gun using muderers are NOTHING in terms of U.S. gun crime, and that any whacko gun control laws that you dream up will NOT put a dent in it. Yes, much higher crime exists in the U.S. due to its commission by minorities. Would U.S. crime drop to the level of Japan without these minoriies? I don't know how one could even begin to show that, perhaps you can show me that link.

    I expect you to present YOUR solution instead of simply saying CONSTANTLY what is "not working". Banning guns for all law abiding theater patrons did not work, yet you see MORE restrictions as the answer. I maintain that had a few persons, perhaps 3% of those in the theater, been armed that this may not have been even attempted, much less accomplished. Even if someone secured (alarmed?) the side exit, this plan would not have worked. Many things can be done to prevent this specific type of crime, yet it is so rare as to be insignificant in terms of the total U.S. crime.

    More people will be likely to be shot in Chicago next week that this Batman dude managed, yet NO presidential visit will result, no national TV marathon will result and no libtards will call for tougher Chicago gun laws, since Chicago already has the nation's touhgest gun laws.
    Last edited by ttwtt78640; 07-23-12 at 01:06 AM.
    “The reasonable man adapts himself to the world: the unreasonable one persists to adapt the world to himself.
    Therefore all progress depends on the unreasonable man.” ― George Bernard Shaw, Man and Superman

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Aberration View Post
    The thought of being able to carry an AR15 into a movie theater, secure it in a rack at my hand, and then kick back? The thought of looking over and seeing Bob from the block over with his trick in the rack? Grandma with some nice engraved double barrel?
    All the blue pills in the world wouldn't help you when the crazed-lookin' dude speaking in tongues sat down behind you and starting snapping shells into his sawed off street sweeper.
    "The necessaries of life occasion the great expense of the poor. They find it difficult to get food, and the greater part of their little revenue is spent in getting it. The luxuries and vanities of life occasion the principal expense of the rich, and a magnificent house embellishes and sets off to the best advantage all the other luxuries and vanities which they possess. ... It is not very unreasonable that the rich should contribute to the public expense, not only in proportion to their revenue, but something more than in that proportion."

    -- Adam Smith

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