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Thread: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Furiounova View Post
    There is the fallacy that causes discord because it blames "accessibility" which is nothing but a call for new gun laws and we have too many stupid gun laws as it is.
    It may be incorrect premises, but there is no fallacy. It is perfectly possible for two reasonable people to disagree, which is what Conner was showing. It is completely ridiculous for Turtledude to claim persecution!!

    For the record, I am for freedom to own modern firearms, whether or not it "costs some lives".
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    As a self professed 'libertarian' do you not support easing of drug laws and restrictions allowing the individual to make those decisions about usage?
    The easing of drug laws would no doubt do more to lower the murder rate than would more restrictive gun laws.

    You see, most of those murders are "gang related". The market for illegal drugs is what is funding gangs, by and large. Eliminate that market, and you have taken a lot of the wind out of the sails of the gangs.

    Quite often, authoritarian laws have unintended consequences. Of course, no one decided to wage a "war on drugs" in order to increase violence, but that has been the result.
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Guns aren't the problem, people are. That this kid was able to legally purchase everything he needed for this killing spree, is not the issue. The issue is, that he wanted to do it in the first place. Looking at gun related deaths is focusing on the SYMPTOM, not the cause. Any decent doc will tell you, that is a mistake. Treating symptoms does not help the patient, in the long run, diagnosing and treating the PROBLEM is. So, the question. WHY did a seemingly normal, albeit quiet and reserved, intelligent, person desire this? Was he pissed off because, here we was, with a degree, and not just ANY degree, a degree in a challenging field, yet working at McDonalds? From my perspective, that's the only thing that even comes close to inducing the rage needed, to produce this result. Or was it simply fame seeking? Was he told, all his life, to do well in school, get good grades, etc, go to college, and he could be president one day? And there he was, doing those things, and working at a fast food restaurant, instead of rich and famous? Was this shoot out his quick ticket to fame, if not fortune?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Crosscheck View Post
    I think it is safe to say that gun control wouldn't have prevented this tradegy. He wanted to kill a high number of people and there are other options he could have pursued.
    You cannot say this for sure.

    What did occur was: "Holmes apparently had prepared the attack at the Aurora theater well in advance, receiving multiple deliveries by mail for four months to his home and school and buying thousands of rounds of ammunition on the Internet, Oates said.

    "He had a high volume of deliveries," Oates said. "We think this explains how he got his hands on the magazine, ammunition," he said, as well as the rigged explosives in his apartment.

    "What we're seeing here is evidence of some calculation and deliberation,For months he ordered material to commit this act."
    Police: Colorado suspect planned attack for months

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Guns aren't the problem, people are. That this kid was able to legally purchase everything he needed for this killing spree, is not the issue. The issue is, that he wanted to do it in the first place. Looking at gun related deaths is focusing on the SYMPTOM, not the cause. Any decent doc will tell you, that is a mistake. Treating symptoms does not help the patient, in the long run, diagnosing and treating the PROBLEM is. So, the question. WHY did a seemingly normal, albeit quiet and reserved, intelligent, person desire this? Was he pissed off because, here we was, with a degree, and not just ANY degree, a degree in a challenging field, yet working at McDonalds? From my perspective, that's the only thing that even comes close to inducing the rage needed, to produce this result. Or was it simply fame seeking? Was he told, all his life, to do well in school, get good grades, etc, go to college, and he could be president one day? And there he was, doing those things, and working at a fast food restaurant, instead of rich and famous? Was this shoot out his quick ticket to fame, if not fortune?
    or was he just an idiopathic total nut case?
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Dittohead not! View Post
    or was he just an idiopathic total nut case?
    And if so...then the question must be asked...how to keep people LIKE him, from causing things like this?

    Also, if he was simply an idiopathic total nut case...why choose now? Why not snap in school, as seems to be the popular choice with idiopathic nut cases?

    The only way to really begin to prevent this sort of ****, it to REALLY understand it, and the people behind it. The better we understand something, the better we can predict something, the better we can prevent something.

    Sans guns, this kid would have simply found another way to kill.

    Why?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    I think it's a sad fact that altering gun ownership laws would have evry little impact on the likelihood of this type of incident reoccurring. Draconian gun control laws in the UK haven't prevented spree killings. What is provable is that the UK generally has a fraction of the firearm homicides of the US: 0.1/100,000 vs. 3.37/100,000. It's a clear correlation but is there any evidence that gun control is the causal factor in the disparity? Anyone got the figures?

    It is clear the US still has a major problem with gun crime that is disproportionately high in comparison with other western nations. It also appears that due to a fear for the future of 2nd amendment constitutional rights, many of those opposed to gun control ignore the problem or seek to divert attention away from tackling it. Those in favour of gun control also miss the point and see GC as some kind of panacea to societal violence in general, which it's not. It would appear to me that the future of efforts to rein in violent crime in general, and gun crime in particular, would be to focus on motives for such crime, rather than the means and opportunities used. Why are American criminals more likely to use extreme violence than their counter-parts in other western societies?
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by Andalublue View Post
    I think it's a sad fact that altering gun ownership laws would have evry little impact on the likelihood of this type of incident reoccurring. Draconian gun control laws in the UK haven't prevented spree killings. What is provable is that the UK generally has a fraction of the firearm homicides of the US: 0.1/100,000 vs. 3.37/100,000. It's a clear correlation but is there any evidence that gun control is the causal factor in the disparity? Anyone got the figures?

    It is clear the US still has a major problem with gun crime that is disproportionately high in comparison with other western nations. It also appears that due to a fear for the future of 2nd amendment constitutional rights, many of those opposed to gun control ignore the problem or seek to divert attention away from tackling it. Those in favour of gun control also miss the point and see GC as some kind of panacea to societal violence in general, which it's not. It would appear to me that the future of efforts to rein in violent crime in general, and gun crime in particular, would be to focus on motives for such crime, rather than the means and opportunities used. Why are American criminals more likely to use extreme violence than their counter-parts in other western societies?
    Exactly. Deal with the problem, not the symptoms.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    explain then while we have a nation awash in dope, crack, blow and speed
    Do you think we would have more or less dope, crack, blow and speed if they weren't illegal? No difference you think?
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    Re: Gun attack at Batman film premiere in Denver [W:120]

    As it turns out, the shooter had an NIH grant, which really is a big deal for a first-year doctoral student. Yet he was underperforming and had dropped out, and what we don't know is why. Has something organic been going on in his brain? Did he crack under the pressure or realize that he didn't have the "right stuff"? We just don't know, and FERPA prevents those in the academic-know from talking about it.

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