• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Fla. Deputies Shoot and Kill Man After Knocking On Wrong Door. ‎

Every witness to the shooting says he did. Also the cops arent denying they didnt announce themselves nor are they legally required to unless they intend to forcibly enter the property.

there were witnesses other than the cops?
 
As fact we know that the cops did not announce themselves and that they shot the man dead. We do not know if he pointed a gun at the cops.

?????

how in the heck do you determine its fact they didnt announce themselves but its not fact he pointed a gun?

that makes no sense

did I miss something? arent both these pieces of info from the word of the cops?

why do you assume one is true and are suspicious of the other? just asking
 
currently as it stands the cops arent at fault and the guy is :shrug:

That is exactly opposite to the ideals of the Republic which maintain innocence of the individual less the State can show otherwise. But here it is supposed to be that the Individual is not restricted while the government is. What you write here essentially means that the government may do anything they want and we must prove that they acted improperly. But the government may not do anything it wants, and THEY must prove that they acted properly. Particularly when we discuss the use of government force against the rights and liberties of the individual.
 
You are not answering my question. You quoted my post which is a good start, but you failed to address it. I am asking you what a cop should do if someone is trying to murder them and no 3rd party witnesses happen to be watching.

Should the cop just lay down and be killed?

put the shoe on the other foot, what should a citizen do if he thinks a cop is about to murder him?
either way, the question is stupid.
 
?????

how in the heck do you determine its fact they didnt announce themselves but its not fact he pointed a gun?

that makes no sense

did I miss something? arent both these pieces of info from the word of the cops?

why do you assume one is true and are suspicious of the other? just asking

OK, so fact is that the cops shot someone dead and all we currently have is excuse by them for their own behavior and no proof that they acted properly in the least.
 
put the shoe on the other foot, what should a citizen do if he thinks a cop is about to murder him?
either way, the question is stupid.

Every person has the right to self defense if they are going to be murdered. It is not a stupid question it is the reality of the situation that these cops faced. A man was about to murder them for knocking on his door.
 
OK, so fact is that the cops shot someone dead and all we currently have is excuse by them for their own behavior and no proof that they acted properly in the least.

Will you please tell me what they should do? I have asked you 4 or 5 times now. C'mon this is getting rediculous.
 
the reports we have state that the cops did NOT announce themselves...
 
There was the cop who shot and the cops who were with him.

So only the government agency involved in the incident is witness to the incident.
 
Every person has the right to self defense if they are going to be murdered. It is not a stupid question it is the reality of the situation that these cops faced. A man was about to murder them for knocking on his door.

Does that include the man in his house, or is that guy just open season?
 
Will you please tell me what they should do? I have asked you 4 or 5 times now. C'mon this is getting rediculous.

I answered before. It's ridiculous, BTW.

And the permanent solution is to always have video cameras with cops. Dash board cams are great, they should be included on other equipment for altercations of this sort with proper rules in place to forbid abuse of the tech.
 
Does that include the man in his house, or is that guy just open season?

Getting a work out with all this ducking and dodging of the question today. Excercise is good i suppose. But when you are done avoiding the questions, think you can answer it or is that asking too much?
 
Every person has the right to self defense if they are going to be murdered. It is not a stupid question it is the reality of the situation that these cops faced. A man was about to murder them for knocking on his door.
a man was about to defend himself, not murder someone....granted he went at it wrong, but you are stating it wrong...
Incompetence, pure and simple....
 
I answered before. It's ridiculous, BTW.

And the permanent solution is to always have video cameras with cops. Dash board cams are great, they should be included on other equipment for altercations of this sort with proper rules in place to forbid abuse of the tech.

There was no camera. Answer the question. Should a cop who is about to murdered defend himself or just die when no other witnesses are present, cameras included. STOP avoiding this question and answer it.
 
Getting a work out with all this ducking and dodging of the question today. Excercise is good i suppose. But when you are done avoiding the questions, think you can answer it or is that asking too much?

I've already answered your questions, and yes you should get quite the work out by all the dodging you're doing.
 
There was no camera. Answer the question. Should a cop who is about to murdered defend himself or just die when no other witnesses are present, cameras included. STOP avoiding this question and answer it.

Oh, now it's not "defend himself or go to jail" like before when I answered your same question. Like the goal post moving. It is as any other situation is. He may respond, but then he must defend himself. What happens to any citizen who shoots another without proof that they were justified in doing so? That's what should happen to the cop as well. Police are not above the law.
 
[/B]a man was about to defend himself, not murder someone....granted he went at it wrong, but you are stating it wrong...
Incompetence, pure and simple....

How so? He has no legal right to be pointing that gun. If you are pointing a gun at someone your intent is to shoot. If you are about to shoot soemone you have no legal right to shoot, that is murder. Not srue I can simplify that any more for you..
 
How so? He has no legal right to be pointing that gun. If you are pointing a gun at someone your intent is to shoot. If you are about to shoot soemone you have no legal right to shoot, that is murder. Not srue I can simplify that any more for you..

OK, so you're saying that if cops come at me pointing guns at me, I am justified in shooting back.
 
That is exactly opposite to the ideals of the Republic which maintain innocence of the individual less the State can show otherwise. But here it is supposed to be that the Individual is not restricted while the government is. What you write here essentially means that the government may do anything they want and we must prove that they acted improperly. But the government may not do anything it wants, and THEY must prove that they acted properly. Particularly when we discuss the use of government force against the rights and liberties of the individual.

wow that a nice bit of fantasy but it is simply not true, its pure dishonesty, hyperbole and propaganda.

Why?
because I never said any of that, its all BS yo made up and assume LMAO

It would only fit if I said things like this guy doesnt get a trial or there should be no investigation etc etc

so what I ACTUALLY wrote is per the current evidence the cops arent at fault and the guy is, meaning that could change and it could not. No if you would like to invent that I said something else in your fantasy world thats fine but thats all its ever going to be.


nice try but an EPIC failure, HUGE

if you are going to act like you can read my mind and put false words in my mouth at least have a logical rational reason to do it.
 
Oh, now it's not "defend himself or go to jail" like before when I answered your same question. Like the goal post moving. It is as any other situation is. He may respond, but then he must defend himself. What happens to any citizen who shoots another without proof that they were justified in doing so? That's what should happen to the cop as well. Police are not above the law.

If a person shoots someone who is attempting to murder them, nothing happens. It is self defense. I agree the same should happen with the cop. The goal posts arent moving. The cop had two choices. Die, or shoot. Which should he have done. Answer the question and quit trying to talk around it. Should a cop be allowed to shoot someone who is attempting to murder them with no witnesses or should they just let themselves be murdered?
 
How so? He has no legal right to be pointing that gun. If you are pointing a gun at someone your intent is to shoot. If you are about to shoot soemone you have no legal right to shoot, that is murder. Not srue I can simplify that any more for you..

I never said he had a legal right to point the gun.....I did say he made a mistake, that cost him his life.
And I ALSO say that the cops in question are poorly trained and incompetent.....
 
OK, so fact is that the cops shot someone dead and all we currently have is excuse by them for their own behavior and no proof that they acted properly in the least.

you like to jump around alot do you, whats wrong dont you want to admit the logic in your last post was broken?

sigh more dramatic hyperbole "acted properly in the least"?

we can say that we THINK the whole story is a lie, thats fine by me but theres no reason to assume the story is inaccurate for now. We investigate and see if theres reason to doubt the story or bring it to trial. Per the info we have the cops arent at fault
 
Back
Top Bottom