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Fla. Deputies Shoot and Kill Man After Knocking On Wrong Door. ‎

Objective-J said:
Oh the irony, actually you continue to prove mine.

you CANT prove your FALSE claim and you cant back up your NEW FALSE claims about me!

I mean if its all true it should be easy to do right? come one prove it, teach me a lesson.
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Do you even realize how childish you're being right now?
 
Lokiate said:
Do you even realize how childish you're being right now?
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Thats nothing more than your opinion, exposing you and your dishonesty isnt childish LOL

Whats childish about pointing out the factual irony in your thread?
what childish about pointiny out your statement was factually wrong? and you wont admit it?
whats childish about pointing out that you claimed I posted logical fallacies and thats not true and you cant back it up?
whats wrong about pointing out that you claimed I made childish insults towards you and thats not true and you cant back it up?

I dont really see it has childish pointing out the reality of our conversation. You are making claims I want you to back them up :shrug:

What do you suggest, that I dont correct your inaccurate statements or ask for someone to logical support their claims?
 
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Read what I typed a little slower, I said he was exercising his Constitutional Rights in a Stand Your Ground State at 1am. He was legal to do just that, the only problem is life can be a little more complicated than some internet lecture on rights and the Constitution.

With rights come responsibilities, where have I heard that before? With the use of deadly force and every time you pick up a weapon for self defense that is the concept you are operating under you have to be damn sure you understand the situation.... (is why answering your door at 1am may not be the best plan, not calling out to see who it is, and not fully alert when going to the door all fall short of a good idea.)

Cops made mistakes too, but once they saw a weapon it was going south in a hurry. Murder suspect search, weapon, 1am... not going to have a happy ending.
 
I normally give police the benefit of doubt, but this doesn't pass the smell test with me. They were going after a murder suspect, yet only two deputies are there at 1:30 am, at the wrong address (which means they didn't have a warrant) and they didn't announce themselves as they knocked. I've seen film of no-knock warrants being served by an entire swat team, which consists of first, yelling "POLICE SEARCH WARRANT" then immediately pounding the door open. I've worked in city governmenet, and know that police are trained to announce themselves any time they approach and knock on a door.

I'm not saying they went there to kill someone. I'm saying they went there unprepared, since they didn't even have the proper address, did not announce themselves as they knocked in the wee hours, then spotted a gun and fired, again without yelling, "POLICE DROP THE WEAPON." If they had done any of this, others in nearby apartments would have heard it, and the man would not be dead.
 
DiAnna said:
I normally give police the benefit of doubt, but this doesn't pass the smell test with me. They were going after a murder suspect, yet only two deputies are there at 1:30 am, at the wrong address (which means they didn't have a warrant) and they didn't announce themselves as they knocked. I've seen film of no-knock warrants being served by an entire swat team, which consists of first, yelling "POLICE SEARCH WARRANT" then immediately pounding the door open. I've worked in city governmenet, and know that police are trained to announce themselves any time they approach and knock on a door.

I'm not saying they went there to kill someone. I'm saying they went there unprepared, since they didn't even have the proper address, did not announce themselves as they knocked in the wee hours, then spotted a gun and fired, again without yelling, "POLICE DROP THE WEAPON." If they had done any of this, others in nearby apartments would have heard it, and the man would not be dead.
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they dont have to announce themselves just because they are knocking nor do they need a warrant to knock

and in somecases sometimes they specifically do not announce themselves so the perp doesnt run out the back, hide/destroy evidence, shoot at the door etc etc
 
Objective-J said:
disagree what did the cops do that was "lots of stupid" ?

they knocked on a door looking for a suspect? it wasnt the right door so what.

And I swear im not being a smart ass Im being as PC with you and logical/rational/reality based as I can.

answer these questions and I dont know the answers Im just trying to get you to think about reality.

how how many times do you think the police knock on a door looking for suspect and thats not where the suspect is in just one single day? do you think 1000 is out of the question?

how many times are the greeted with a gun pointed at them?


EDIT: also to be clear im talking about with the current facts, these cops maybe mega types of stupid if other things comes out :)
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let's see, they are looking for a guy who is likely armed and dangerous, and they KNOCK ON HIS DOOR AT 1:30AM?
I suppose they thought he would wake up too groggy to be suspicious of who might be visiting at that time?
Did they know if he was alone? It might have turned into a hostage situation if he had someone there with him.
If you know where he is, you wait til he comes out and tackle him. You don't announce your presence and you don't go knocking at his door and ask him to come quietly. all that is based on having the right address....
And how do you get the wrong door? No numbers on the doors, maybe? all the more reason to take a few extra minutes to verify the address ...
If these guys do this 1000 times a day, surely they know how to do it correctly?
and if you don't know if he is there, why bother the residents in the middle of the night?
somebody needs more training, and somebody needs to lose their job.
I am not a cop, never played one on TV, but ANYBODY should know better than to bang on a door in the middle of the night and expect a warm reception....
 
Objective-J said:
No and why would they yet, they havent been asked, the door wasnt opened yet for a meet a greet and they were there looking for a murder suspect.

Police have come to my door and not identified themselves until I asked who is it or saw them through the peek hole
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meet and greet at 1:30 AM? that's rude, man....
 
UtahBill said:
let's see, they are looking for a guy who is likely armed and dangerous, and they KNOCK ON HIS DOOR AT 1:30AM? yes or they could leave him alone and wait for him to possible kill others
I suppose they thought he would wake up too groggy to be suspicious of who might be visiting at that time? or that maybe he could be killing others and they wanted to stop it.
Did they know if he was alone? Did they know he wasnt killing others or didnt already have a hostage or wasnt planning another killing?

It might have turned into a hostage situation if he had someone there with him. They might have saved someones life by knocking or someone else could have been killed if they didnt knock

If you know where he is, you wait til he comes out and tackle him. after two more people are dead inside his apartment or he got more guns and more ammo

You don't announce your presence and you don't go knocking at his door and ask him to come quietly. they only wanted to detain him, coming quite is up to him and for the record many murders have gone quiet

all that is based on having the right address.... or doing their job and investigating leads

And how do you get the wrong door? No numbers on the doors, maybe? all the more reason to take a few extra minutes to verify the address ... and lose another victim or lose him out the back door


If these guys do this 1000 times a day, surely they know how to do it correctly? what says they did it wrong?



and if you don't know if he is there, why bother the residents in the middle of the night? public saftey
somebody needs more training, and somebody needs to lose their job. somebody needs more hangun traingin and needs to learn you dont go pointing your gun out your door at anybody simply because they knocked and somebody should get thanked because one less nut is out thier with a gun who doesnt know how to handle it


I am not a cop, never played one on TV, but ANYBODY should know better than to bang on a door in the middle of the night and expect a warm reception....anybody should no not to open there door without asking who it is, seeing who it is then pointing a gun at people on the other side LMAO
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this will be fun playing fantasy

seee all your points are meaningless to the fact we actually have
 
roguenuke said:
It isn't okay to answer your door with a gun aimed at whoever is knocking. It is a bad reaction, whether it is the police or someone else, particularly in an apartment building, where an accidental discharge could miss whoever is there, go through the apartment wall across from you and hit someone in there.

Both parties made mistakes, but it is the guy pointing a gun at cops who got himself killed. Its easy to blame the police, but circumstances do not always provide police with an easy answer with how to approach a situation.
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that is why they train, just like where you work, you prepare for all kinds of likely scenarios....
 
Lokiate said:
I don't know, 1:30 in the morning, unexpected visitors? I don't know anything about that area, but where I live, you'd be stupid to answer the door under those circumstances without a weapon in hand. The cops here know it too.
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That is what I was thinking. AT 1:30 in the morning and someone pounding on my door I am going to answer it with some type of weapon in my hand and my Rottweiler's collar in the other.

There is never any good coming from a 1:30 AM door knock.
 
Crosscheck said:
That is what I was thinking. AT 1:30 in the morning and someone pounding on my door I am going to answer it with some type of weapon in my hand and my Rottweiler's collar in the other.

There is never any good coming from a 1:30 AM door knock.
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Which is why cops here don't do it. They'll get you in the daytime because it's safer for them. This bust was doomed from the start, and on top of that, they didn't even bother to check and make sure they had the right place before going in.

I'm not a cop, and I'm sure we do it different, but when I was in the Army it was made perfectly clear that you ALWAYS get your facts straight before going into anything because:

A. Controlling the situation increases the chance of mission success
B. It generally lowers the chance of casualties, and
C. It reduces the chances of costly mistakes

This was a costly mistake that resulted in citizen casualty, because they did not have control of the situation. Why? Because they didn't have their facts. 5 minutes of fact checking could have prevented this from happening. On top of a dead citizen, the entire department may now face public backlash, the credibility of the department is tarnished, the taxpayers will have to pay costly reparations, and these officer may have just created a very hostile environment for their fellow peace officers.

And what would have happened if they did get the right place? Pounding on a door like that in the middle of the night. He was wanted for murder. They didn't even stop to think that maybe they were unnecessarily putting their own lives at risk to catch some douchebag? Where was their back up? Where was their plan of action? I don't think these deputies are competent enough to wear a badge, honestly.
 
Crosscheck said:
That is what I was thinking. AT 1:30 in the morning and someone pounding on my door I am going to answer it with some type of weapon in my hand and my Rottweiler's collar in the other.

There is never any good coming from a 1:30 AM door knock.
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I would do that also

but I would also not try to see who it is, and would ask who it is and I most certainly would NOT just open up the door and point my gun at whoever is there because that would be stupid and Im smart enough to know that could get me killed.
 
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Lokiate said:
Which is why cops here don't do it. They'll get you in the daytime because it's safer for them. This bust was doomed from the start, and on top of that, they didn't even bother to check and make sure they had the right place before going in.

I'm not a cop, and I'm sure we do it different, but when I was in the Army it was made perfectly clear that you ALWAYS get your facts straight before going into anything because:

A. Controlling the situation increases the chance of mission success
B. It generally lowers the chance of casualties, and
C. It reduces the chances of costly mistakes

This was a costly mistake that resulted in citizen casualty, because they did not have control of the situation. Why? Because they didn't have their facts. 5 minutes of fact checking could have prevented this from happening. On top of a dead citizen, the entire department may now face public backlash, the credibility of the department is tarnished, the taxpayers will have to pay costly reparations, and these officer may have just created a very hostile environment for their fellow peace officers.

And what would have happened if they did get the right place? Pounding on a door like that in the middle of the night. He was wanted for murder. They didn't even stop to think that maybe they were unnecessarily putting their own lives at risk to catch some douchebag? Where was their back up? Where was their plan of action? I don't think these deputies are competent enough to wear a badge, honestly.
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Excellent post. My thoughts exactly.
 
roguenuke said:
But they were not on his property in the middle of the night. If he was pointing a gun at them and they technically were not on his property or advancing into it before he pointed it at them, then he technically wasn't totally defending his property because he didn't know what threat they really posed. If he saw that they had weapons prior to opening the door, then he should have called 911. If he just opened the door to them with gun aimed at whoever was there, then he wasn't defending himself as he was just threatening the person right outside his door. He had no true way to know the knocker's intention when he opened the door, so his proper response should not have been open the door, aiming a gun at whoever was out there. Either leave the door closed and ask for identification and/or call the police or, if you feel truly brave, open the door with gun in hand but not aimed at whoever is on the other side.
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The point I made earlier was concerning what was legal, not what he should have done or what a "proper response" might be. He had no intention of shooting anyone. He was trying to scare away whoever it was pounding on his door at 2AM.
 
roguenuke said:
Why wouldn't they have their guns unholstered and pointed at the door when they knocked? They believed they very well may be facing an armed suspect. It would make sense that they would have their guns ready should the guy attempt to shoot them.
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If they were concerned to the point of drawing guns, thinking there was an armed suspect in the apartment, I'd be hard pressed to think of a more stupid way to go about apprehending him than having a couple of officers knock on the door and wait for him to answer.
 
Taylor said:
The point I made earlier was concerning what was legal, not what he should have done or what a "proper response" might be. He had no intention of shooting anyone. He was trying to scare away whoever it was pounding on his door at 2AM.
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How do you know what his intention was?
 
muciti said:
article states

In the early-morning hours, deputies knocked on 26-year-old Andrew Lee Scott's door without identifying themselves as law enforcement officers. Scott answered the door with a gun in his hand.
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So cops did not identify, interesting. You point a gun at anyone, you do run the risk of being shot. But if someone is on your property, threatening you and you pull a gun and they shoot you...they're murderers. That's the charge they'd face.
 
muciti said:
How do you know what his intention was?
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Common sense. First, there are very few people in this world who would kill someone simply for knocking on the door at 2AM. I'm guessing that most of those people have a few screws loose and violent criminal records by the time they're 28. Second, if your intention is to shoot someone, you don't open the door a few inches and wave the muzzle of the gun around. That's the sort of thing you do when you want to scare someone away.
 
Taylor said:
Common sense. First, there are very few people in this world who would kill someone simply for knocking on the door at 2AM. I'm guessing that most of those people have a few screws loose and violent criminal records by the time they're 28. Second, if your intention is to shoot someone, you don't open the door a few inches and wave the muzzle of the gun around. That's the sort of thing you do when you want to scare someone away.
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This is all assuming the deputies report is accurate, which I highly doubt.
 
Taylor said:
The point I made earlier was concerning what was legal, not what he should have done or what a "proper response" might be. He had no intention of shooting anyone. He was trying to scare away whoever it was pounding on his door at 2AM.
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LMAO says who? thats a total guess


I love the dramatic talk to , weird the few people that think the cops did something wrong use the words POUNDING, BEATING etc on this door.

When maybe they were simply knocking? :shrug:

Lets stick with what we know so far.

I love when people just make stuff up, this is a pure quess on your part, theres just as much reason to GUESS he was pissed so sombeody was beating the daylights out of his door so he was gonna teach them a lesson. just as much evidence and equally as silly.
 
Taylor said:
If they were concerned to the point of drawing guns, thinking there was an armed suspect in the apartment, I'd be hard pressed to think of a more stupid way to go about apprehending him than having a couple of officers knock on the door and wait for him to answer.
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yet it happens every day and the vast majority of people dont open their door point guns at people LMAO

no matter how much people try to spin this it wont, unless more info comes out

Its common to look for a suspect by knocking on doors, time dont matter, whether the suspect is there doesnt matter, whether they have thier guns drawn because this suspect might be dangerous doesn't matter, its still COMMON and NORMAL

its NOT common to open the door without asking who it is and simply point a gun at the person(s) on the outside.

So being objective and per the story, these cops arent at fault
 
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