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Fla. Deputies Shoot and Kill Man After Knocking On Wrong Door. ‎

lpast said:
Ever hear of backdoors and windows maggie....yes they made a mistake, no one has denied that I dont think.....His mistake was NOT answering his door...his mistake was answering his door and having a gun pointing at two cops...that would be a mistake no matter who was at the door...
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Tragic. If I lived in an apartment without a peephole, I'd be scared to freakin' death if someone knocked at my door at 1 in the mmorning. I might have gone to the door with my gun. Wouldn't aim it at anyone, but I can imagine having it in my hand. I wouldn't want to not answer since, if it's a burglar, they'd think no one was home . . .

Don't cops often go to great lengths to engineer peaceful arrests of dangerous subjects when they can? Those 1 AM attempts. Aren't they often kicking down the door?
 
MaggieD said:
Tragic. If I lived in an apartment without a peephole, I'd be scared to freakin' death if someone knocked at my door at 1 in the mmorning. I might have gone to the door with my gun. Wouldn't aim it at anyone, but I can imagine having it in my hand. I wouldn't want to not answer since, if it's a burglar, they'd think no one was home . . .

Don't cops often go to great lengths to engineer peaceful arrests of dangerous subjects when they can? Those 1 AM attempts. Aren't they often kicking down the door?
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So yell out that you called the cops and they are on their way. Or ask through the door who is there. Pretty sure most cops are required to identify themselves when asked directly, particularly if they know the person is on the other side of the door and they are knocking on your door at 1 am.
 
lpast said:
Ever hear of backdoors and windows maggie....yes they made a mistake, no one has denied that I dont think.....His mistake was NOT answering his door...his mistake was answering his door and having a gun pointing at two cops...that would be a mistake no matter who was at the door...
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I don't know, 1:30 in the morning, unexpected visitors? I don't know anything about that area, but where I live, you'd be stupid to answer the door under those circumstances without a weapon in hand. The cops here know it too.
 
Lokiate said:
Them going to the wrong house was the entire cause of the shooting. It's entirely their fault.
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LMAO

wrong

you wording is TOTALLY DISHONEST and void of intellectual rational. "ENTIRE CAUSE" :lamo

so reverse it, what if some girl was on your way to your house at 1am, you gave her directions but she picked the wrong house and some guy shot her for simply knocking on the wrong door.

Guess her knockin g on the wrong door would be the "entire cause" of her getting killed LOL

no, cops go to wrong houses/places all the time, see post 38

tell me something, if he doesnt open the door with a gun pointed at officers does he still get shot? the only answer by your logic is yes he does because the ENTIRE CAUSE was going to the wrong house.


sorry buddy that broken logic at its finest
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1060699434 said:
Sure, why not, shoot first and ask questions later. It isn't OK, even when the police do it.
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It isn't okay to answer your door with a gun aimed at whoever is knocking. It is a bad reaction, whether it is the police or someone else, particularly in an apartment building, where an accidental discharge could miss whoever is there, go through the apartment wall across from you and hit someone in there.

Both parties made mistakes, but it is the guy pointing a gun at cops who got himself killed. Its easy to blame the police, but circumstances do not always provide police with an easy answer with how to approach a situation.
 
Μολὼν λαβέ;1060699423 said:
If the cops had identified themselves this probably never would have happened. What I find interesting is the amount of people in this thread who seem to find no culpability with the police, especially given the circumstances.
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with the current facts at hand theres no reason to, the circumstances is exactly why I find no quilt with cops.

now if the story changes then maybe I will place some blame on them

my question is what reason do I have to blame them for?
 
Objective-J said:
LMAO

wrong

you wording is TOTALLY DISHONEST and void of intellectual rational. "ENTIRE CAUSE" :lamo

so reverse it, what if some girl was on your way to your house at 1am, you gave her directions but she picked the wrong house and some guy shot her for simply knocking on the wrong door.

Guess her knockin g on the wrong door would be the "entire cause" of her getting killed LOL

no, cops go to wrong houses/places all the time, see post 38

tell me something, if he doesnt open the door with a gun pointed at officers does he still get shot? the only answer by your logic is yes he does because the ENTIRE CAUSE was going to the wrong house.


sorry buddy that broken logic at its finest
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The danger is that, with the coppers think they were knocking on the door of a guy who killed somebody, they were (rightly so) hyper-vigilant. Of course they would say he was pointing the gun at them. Had he just had it in his hand, and they saw it? The results would have been the same.
 
MaggieD said:
The danger is that, with the coppers think they were knocking on the door of a guy who killed somebody, they were (rightly so) hyper-vigilant. Of course they would say he was pointing the gun at them. Had he just had it in his hand, and they saw it? The results would have been the same.
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thats 100% pure speculation, you dont know that. man cops have subdued someone that have literally just killed someone?

if thats true then Id agreee the cops were wrong and Id blam them but per the info they didnt nothing wrong
 
lpast said:
Sigh, I hate to hear stuff like this...such a shame....I dont know about anyone else...but right next to my door there is a combat shotgun...and a million vote stun gun...for god sake LOOK whos at your door before you open the damn thing...I always do...why would you just answer your door pointing a gun at whoever is standing there...what if it was a 10 yr old selling school candy....I have to believe if this guy looked and saw two cops at his door he wouldnt have done what he did
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Do 10 year olds sell candy in your neighborhood at 1:30 in the morning?

If the cops had announced themselves it wouldn't have happened either.

If the cops hadn't knocked on the wrong door at 1:30 in the morning it wouldn't have happened either.

I find t appalling a guy minding his own business at home at 1:30 am is shot and killed and those here justify it.
 
Objective-J said:
LMAO

wrong

you wording is TOTALLY DISHONEST and void of intellectual rational. "ENTIRE CAUSE" :lamo

so reverse it, what if some girl was on your way to your house at 1am, you gave her directions but she picked the wrong house and some guy shot her for simply knocking on the wrong door.

Guess her knockin g on the wrong door would be the "entire cause" of her getting killed LOL

no, cops go to wrong houses/places all the time, see post 38

tell me something, if he doesnt open the door with a gun pointed at officers does he still get shot? the only answer by your logic is yes he does because the ENTIRE CAUSE was going to the wrong house.


sorry buddy that broken logic at its finest
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Cool story bro. Had the deputies gotten their facts straight before pounding on someones door in the dead of night, this wouldn't even be an issue.
 
Lokiate said:
Cool story bro. Had the deputies gotten their facts straight before pounding on someones door in the dead of night, this wouldn't even be an issue.
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Bam, bam, bam, bam... Oh, my bad, wrong place.
 
Lokiate said:
Cool story bro. Had the deputies gotten their facts straight before pounding on someones door in the dead of night, this wouldn't even be an issue.
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LMAO
thats what I thought,

translation: you have no logical retort so you deflect, I already knew that though.

Weird this doesnt happen all the time and every time since its the entire cause, I wonder why? because you are factually wrong :laughat:
 
Objective-J said:
with the current facts at hand theres no reason to, the circumstances is exactly why I find no quilt with cops.

now if the story changes then maybe I will place some blame on them

my question is what reason do I have to blame them for?
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no guilt, agree, but lots of stupid, on both sides...
 
Objective-J said:
LMAO
thats what I thought,

translation: you have no logical retort so you deflect, I already knew that though.

Weird this doesnt happen all the time and every time since its the entire cause, I wonder why? because you are factually wrong :laughat:
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No, I just don't put much effort towards childish attacks.
 
There is something called an AAR, after action review, where the exercise or incident is gone over with a fine tooth comb.

The problem is those who sit on the sidelines and comment rarely have an experience in such matters. It was a pucked deal from the git-go. The deputies did mess up, but without the help of a strong 2nd A 'defender' answering the door with a weapon, which may or may not have been pointed at the Officers, they wouldn't have felt the need to shoot. I do believe if one Officer yells "GUN" it is on with out any real pointing required. Murder suspect, weapon- small details can be filled in later.

I can't figure why only two officers to roust a murder suspect, as mentioned before there are back windows and doors. I don't believe many tapping away at there computers would be so clear headed at 1am, and just how many girl scouts sell cookies at 1am? If it was ANYone else. 'cept maybe thugs, at the door no one would have died. But it was armed Officers looking for a felony suspect.

Some comment on their neighborhood as a venue this could have happened in, we don't know if this was a 'good' or 'bad' area. We don't know that went on prior to the 1am knock. Speculating doesn't help us understand.

I can't help but think a perfectly legal exercise of the victim's Constitutional Rights lead to his death at the hands of Law Enforcement who made mistakes but none intentional. It is as if Stand Your Ground has emboldened some and there are consequences. A young mother in OK waited until the bad guys broke in before shooting. This guy went to the door and opened it to someone he didn't know at 1 in the morning. Perfectly legal in a Stand Your Ground State, deadly when done unwittingly to the cops on a murder suspect hunt.
 
Lokiate said:
No, I just don't put much effort towards childish attacks.
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you mean fact you cant refute with logic, rational and reality

LMAO nice try but you failed and your claim of "entire cause" was still 100% wrong. You want to avoid childish things you claim, then man up and admit your statement was wrong and misspoke, thats what adults do :shrug:
 
UtahBill said:
no guilt, agree, but lots of stupid, on both sides...
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disagree what did the cops do that was "lots of stupid" ?

they knocked on a door looking for a suspect? it wasnt the right door so what.

And I swear im not being a smart ass Im being as PC with you and logical/rational/reality based as I can.

answer these questions and I dont know the answers Im just trying to get you to think about reality.

how how many times do you think the police knock on a door looking for suspect and thats not where the suspect is in just one single day? do you think 1000 is out of the question?

how many times are the greeted with a gun pointed at them?


EDIT: also to be clear im talking about with the current facts, these cops maybe mega types of stupid if other things comes out :)
 
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Objective-J said:
you mean fact you cant refute with logic, rational and reality

LMAO nice try but you failed and your claim of "entire cause" was still 100% wrong. You want to avoid childish things you claim, then man up and admit your statement was wrong and misspoke, thats what adults do :shrug:
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No, the fact that you're acting like a child, and haven't once demonstrated that you're worth the effort of a reasoned response. Hint: Typing "LMAO" in every response makes you look like an idiot.
 
Lokiate said:
No, the fact that you're acting like a child, and haven't once demonstrated that you're worth the effort of a reasoned response. Hint: Typing "LMAO" in every response makes you look like an idiot.
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oh look another deflection and more failed insults LOL

sorry thats what people typically do when they have no logical honest path to take

no matter what you try to do your statement was factually wrong.

just man up and admit it.
 
Objective-J said:
disagree what did the cops do that was "lots of stupid" ?

they knocked on a door looking for a suspect? it wasnt the right door so what.

And I swear im not being a smart ass Im being as PC with you and logical/rational/reality based as I can.

answer these questions and I dont know the answers Im just trying to get you to think about reality.

how how many times do you think the police knock on a door looking for suspect and thats not where the suspect is in just one single day? do you think 1000 is out of the question?

how many times are the greeted with a gun pointed at them?


EDIT: also to be clear im talking about with the current facts, these cops maybe mega types of stupid if other things comes out :)
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What "evidence" exists that the "suspect" pointed their gun at police, OTHER than the testimony of the TWO officers that both shot (and killed) him? What did YOU think they would say?
 
Objective-J said:
oh look another deflection and more failed insults LOL

sorry thats what people typically do when they have no logical honest path to take

no matter what you try to do your statement was factually wrong.

just man up and admit it.
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Follow your own advice. All you've posted at me were childish insults, logical fallacies and internet acronyms, while insisting that you're correct.
 
Lokiate said:
Follow your own advice. All you've posted at me were childish insults, logical fallacies and internet acronyms, while insisting that you're correct.
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LMAO!!
acronyms ill give you as lots of people use them, they are meaningless and another deflection by you

but

I would LOOOOOVE for you to point out these "logical fallacies that are incorrect" and "childish insults" LMAO



pleeeeeeeease do this, I cant wait


unlike you I have posted facts and logic and can back up my claims and anything that is my opinion I can freely admit, you havent :shrug:

what you said was factually incorrect and I proved it.

sorry that bothers you

nice try though
 
Objective-J said:
LMAO!!
acronyms ill give you as lots of people use them, they are meaningless and another deflection by you

but

I would LOOOOOVE for you to point out these "logical fallacies that are incorrect" and "childish insults" LMAO



pleeeeeeeease do this, I cant wait


unlike you I have posted facts and logic and can back up my claims and anything that is my opinion I can freely admit, you havent :shrug:

what you said was factually incorrect and I proved it.

sorry that bothers you

nice try though
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You continue to prove my point. Good day.
 
notquiteright said:
There is something called an AAR, after action review, where the exercise or incident is gone over with a fine tooth comb.

The problem is those who sit on the sidelines and comment rarely have an experience in such matters. It was a pucked deal from the git-go. The deputies did mess up, but without the help of a strong 2nd A 'defender' answering the door with a weapon, which may or may not have been pointed at the Officers, they wouldn't have felt the need to shoot. I do believe if one Officer yells "GUN" it is on with out any real pointing required. Murder suspect, weapon- small details can be filled in later.

I can't figure why only two officers to roust a murder suspect, as mentioned before there are back windows and doors. I don't believe many tapping away at there computers would be so clear headed at 1am, and just how many girl scouts sell cookies at 1am? If it was ANYone else. 'cept maybe thugs, at the door no one would have died. But it was armed Officers looking for a felony suspect.

Some comment on their neighborhood as a venue this could have happened in, we don't know if this was a 'good' or 'bad' area. We don't know that went on prior to the 1am knock. Speculating doesn't help us understand.

I can't help but think a perfectly legal exercise of the victim's Constitutional Rights lead to his death at the hands of Law Enforcement who made mistakes but none intentional. It is as if Stand Your Ground has emboldened some and there are consequences. A young mother in OK waited until the bad guys broke in before shooting. This guy went to the door and opened it to someone he didn't know at 1 in the morning. Perfectly legal in a Stand Your Ground State, deadly when done unwittingly to the cops on a murder suspect hunt.
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What? The man in his home is wrong to have a gun with him to respond to a noise at his door? Remember, this is Joe Citizen, awoken by a noise at the door, after midnight, who takes his gun along to investigate the noise. The confused and paranoid officers ASSUME a threat, upon seeing a gun, as they WRONGLY assume that the MC outside belongs to this citizen, so they execute him in his own home. Of course they are going to play "hero" and assert they were "assaulted" with the gun, they KNOW the law, but they are the ONLY living witnesses, so who is to deny their "official" version of events?
 
Lokiate said:
You continue to prove my point. Good day.
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Oh the irony, actually you continue to prove mine.

you CANT prove your FALSE claim and you cant back up your NEW FALSE claims about me!

I mean if its all true it should be easy to do right? come one prove it, teach me a lesson.
 
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