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Thread: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    The action of the military has not effected the political universe one way or another. Moreover, to waste a moment on such and delay what should have been done would be to place the crew and the ship in jeopardy. Politics are left to the politicians who dictate what protocols would be in place thuggish this matter not the military. As you can see SOP dictates: "Navy vessels are on special alert for small craft, which Iran has used to shadow and sometimes harass ships in the gulf, and have permission to use lethal force to halt boats that draw too close." There is no political thinking necessary or warranted.
    I don't think you really believe that. Guantanamo is a perfect example of how US Military action has caused a lasting stir in the political arena. People still debate whether or not torture is still acceptable, and whether or not EPW's have a right to trial. When I was in Korea, every rule enforced was to prevent international incidents. After tensions grew, and we had to do a stupid "show of force" exercise a stones throw from the DMZ, I remember being told we can't have blanks because we don't want to start WWIII. Sure, we don't make policies, but we have eyes on us at all times, just waiting for that one moment they can use to justify policy.
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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    But that is not your job. That is the job of the politicians. The military are there to follow orders not make policy.

    You're a Soldier, you know the score. A Soldier can walk tall with his 249, but light up the wrong guy at the wrong time, politics come into play in an instant. We might not care, I sure as **** don't, but the suits do, and they'll use every round fired to make their talking points come true.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

  3. #33
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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    No you supported his position where he stated, "not worth risking just for the sake of political bull****". You got my rebuttal politics are not a consideration orders, established protocol and procedures are considered.
    Whether you like it or not, politics enters into the equation - that's simply a fact of life. The question is what the skipper should value more - potentially creating an international incident or eliminating a potential threat to his men and his ship. I think the vast majority of folks in this thread have stated that they agree it should be the latter and not the former. That's all I'm saying.
    Last edited by StillBallin75; 07-17-12 at 02:12 AM.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    You're a Soldier, you know the score. A Soldier can walk tall with his 249, but light up the wrong guy at the wrong time, politics come into play in an instant. We might not care, I sure as **** don't, but the suits do, and they'll use every round fired to make their talking points come true.

    That is why there are measures in place. No political judgement calls, but the following: "The U.S. crew repeatedly attempted to warn the vessel's operators to turn away from their deliberate approach," the Navy statement said. U.S. officials said the fishermen ignored warnings by radio, loudspeakers and flashing lights before the Navy security team opened fire. They had the right to do so because policy had already been in place, created by the politicians, which stated: "Navy vessels are on special alert for small craft, which Iran has used to shadow and sometimes harass ships in the gulf, and have permission to use lethal force to halt boats that draw too close."

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    I don't think you really believe that. Guantanamo is a perfect example of how US Military action has caused a lasting stir in the political arena. People still debate whether or not torture is still acceptable, and whether or not EPW's have a right to trial. When I was in Korea, every rule enforced was to prevent international incidents. After tensions grew, and we had to do a stupid "show of force" exercise a stones throw from the DMZ, I remember being told we can't have blanks because we don't want to start WWIII. Sure, we don't make policies, but we have eyes on us at all times, just waiting for that one moment they can use to justify policy.
    The military has no right to stay there unless they are allowed to by politicians, nor can they leave should they feel it runs against their collective conscience. MacArthur tried that a look where that got him.

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    If I'm not mistaken, the person that was killed was a poor Indian fisherman. I guess no one will miss him, but his family who depended on him to put food on the table.

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by 24107 View Post
    If I'm not mistaken, the person that was killed was a poor Indian fisherman. I guess no one will miss him, but his family who depended on him to put food on the table.

    He was on the wrong place at the wrong time doing the wrong thing.

    Sadly, that is life these unfortunate events happen.
    Last edited by Mya; 07-17-12 at 02:36 AM.

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    It's clear to me that this was a manufactured "incident." The common tactic these days is to deliberately place civilians in peril and then draw fire directly on to the civilians, hoping that some will be killed. It's a game of negative PR against the US using people's lives like poker chips. It's a heinous approach and it's intent is quite obvious, but apparently not nearly enough people see through the ruse. They knew the tactic had to work. The ship would have to fire eventually. If it didn't, it would only prove the USN was ripe for another small boat attack. And that would be good intel for US enemies.

    The entire purpose of the Indians on board was to be shot or killed. Now they can say, "why would Americans 'mercilessly' kill a simple fisherman?" Enemies of the US and the soft-headed will soon become enraged, just as their puppet masters demand.

    EDIT: And oh yeah, since when do "poor" Indian fisherman have the money to rent out a pleasure craft? C'mon, man!
    Last edited by EagleAye; 07-17-12 at 07:33 AM.
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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    A investigation of the incident showed the boat didn’t receive a warning and was sailing on its rightful course, Abu Dhabi-based newspaper The National reported today, citing Dahi Khalfan, Dubai’s police chief. The shooting was a mistake, the newspaper cited him as saying.
    U.S. Navy Ship Fires on Fishing Boat Near Dubai; 1 Dead - Bloomberg
    Last edited by RDS; 07-17-12 at 08:26 AM.

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    The trigger happy skipper jumped the gun.

    (Reuters) - Iran on Tuesday criticized the actions of a U.S. navy ship that shot at an approaching fishing boat off the United Arab Emirates, saying the incident showed foreign forces threatened regional security.
    U.S. ambassador to India Nancy Powell telephoned Indian Foreign Secretary Ranjan Mathai to convey her regret for the loss of life, the Indian foreign ministry said. A statement by the U.S. embassy in New Delhi conveyed condolences to the families of the crew of the vessel.
    U.S. Navy attack threatens regional security: Iran foreign ministry | Digg Topnews

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