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Thread: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

  1. #21
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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    Amidst all the warnings? You come to the conclusion that your large number of personnel are not worth risking just for the sake of political bull****, and you engage the enemy with a quickness.
    This specific situation had nothing at all to do with politics. It had to do with the specifics of the situation and the proper action which needed to be taken.

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    This specific situation had nothing at all to do with politics. It had to do with the specifics of the situation and the proper action which needed to be taken.
    Well to be fair Lokiate is right - this incident can potentially (if not already) have political implications.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    This specific situation had nothing at all to do with politics. It had to do with the specifics of the situation and the proper action which needed to be taken.
    It's always political. If we so much as sneeze the wrong way, it makes the 6 o'clock news. I'm sure the Arabs are having a field day with this right about now.
    I love the NSA. It's like having a secret fan-base you will never see, but they're there, watching everything you write and it makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside knowing that I may be some person's only form of unconstitutional entertainment one night.

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    Well to be fair Lokiate is right - this incident can potentially (if not already) have political implications.
    The action of the military has not effected the political universe one way or another. Moreover, to waste a moment on such and delay what should have been done would be to place the crew and the ship in jeopardy. Politics are left to the politicians who dictate what protocols would be in place thuggish this matter not the military. As you can see SOP dictates: "Navy vessels are on special alert for small craft, which Iran has used to shadow and sometimes harass ships in the gulf, and have permission to use lethal force to halt boats that draw too close." There is no political thinking necessary or warranted.

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Political implications or not.... they had to take action. What the US ship did was right.

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Lokiate View Post
    It's always political. If we so much as sneeze the wrong way, it makes the 6 o'clock news. I'm sure the Arabs are having a field day with this right about now.
    But that is not your job. That is the job of the politicians. The military are there to follow orders not make policy.
    Last edited by Connery; 07-17-12 at 01:50 AM.

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    Political implications or not.... they had to take action. What the US ship did was right.
    I know I been saying that since post number 3.

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Connery View Post
    The action of the military has not effected the political universe one way or another. Moreover, to waste a moment on such and delay what should have been done would be to place the crew and the ship in jeopardy. Politics are left to the politicians who dictate what protocols would be in place thuggish this matter not the military. As you can see SOP dictates: "Navy vessels are on special alert for small craft, which Iran has used to shadow and sometimes harass ships in the gulf, and have permission to use lethal force to halt boats that draw too close." There is no political thinking necessary or warranted.
    I never said it was incumbent upon the ship's skipper or personnel to take politics into account. I said that the outcome of this incident can potentially have political ramifications. Those are two different things.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by Mya View Post
    Political implications or not.... they had to take action. What the US ship did was right.
    Based on the information currently available, I don't think anyone is arguing otherwise.
    Nobody who wins a war indulges in a bifurcated definition of victory. War is a political act; victory and defeat have meaning only in political terms. A country incapable of achieving its political objectives at an acceptable cost is losing the war, regardless of battlefield events.

    Bifurcating victory (e.g. winning militarily, losing politically) is a useful salve for defeated armies. The "stab in the back" narrative helped take the sting out of failure for German generals after WWI and their American counterparts after Vietnam.

    All the same, it's nonsense. To paraphrase Vince Lombardi, show me a political loser, and I'll show you a loser.
    - Colonel Paul Yingling

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    Re: US Ship Fires on Boat off Dubai, 1 Dead

    Quote Originally Posted by StillBallin75 View Post
    I never said it was incumbent upon the ship's skipper or personnel to take politics into account. I said that the outcome of this incident can potentially have political ramifications. Those are two different things.
    No you supported his position where he stated, "not worth risking just for the sake of political bull****". You got my rebuttal politics are not a consideration orders, established protocol and procedures are considered.

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