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Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

Harshaw said:
What's the conclusion, then?
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It's not like he was saying the individuals themselves had nothing to do with their own success. I think it was a broad statement about much of society in general.
 
zstep18 said:
The point was that, yes successful people become successful because of their own initiative, but also because of the people before who helped them along the way. What's so wrong about that?
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There's nothing wrong with that on it's face, but that is not what he was saying.
 
zstep18 said:
It's not like he was saying the individuals themselves had nothing to do with their own success. I think it was a broad statement about much of society in general.
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Look, he didn't even imply an equal balance between the impact of govt and the impact of individual effort. He put the majority on govt, claiming that without his version of govt, business wouldn't succeed. That's simply false. If it weren't, why is the economy still sucking?
 
mac said:
There's nothing wrong with that on it's face, but that is not what he was saying.
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So, a couple sentences after his "you didn't build that" statement, when he said, "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together", what was he saying?
 
mac said:
Only if you rearrange the words. You're actually splitting a sentence in half and replying it elsewhere.
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Which, in context, was exactly what Obama was doing. No, it wasn't the best paragraph construction.
 
zstep18 said:
It's not like he was saying the individuals themselves had nothing to do with their own success. I think it was a broad statement about much of society in general.
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And the conclusion is what? It's a premise, like "there are mountains in Montana." What's the conclusion?
 
when people take statements out of context like this, they become liars...and their credibility is shot.....
both sides do it, tho....
 
zstep18 said:
So, a couple sentences after his "you didn't build that" statement, when he said, "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together", what was he saying?
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He was saying "Crap, I screwed up...let me recover it now!"
 
Deuce said:
Which, in context, was exactly what Obama was doing. No, it wasn't the best paragraph construction.
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So, this extremely well spoken and intelligent person can't correctly form a paragraph? That's the defense?
 
mac said:
So, this extremely well spoken and intelligent person can't correctly form a paragraph? That's the defense?
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Imagine that, a well spoken and intelligent person not wording something in the best way. Oh the horror.
 
zstep18 said:
There's a role for government in certain things?
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Who says there isn't? He's swatting at imaginary flies.

And what does this "role" entail? If it's about the "role" of government in certain things, why is he going on about business owners? What do they have to do with it? Connect the dots.
 
It is amazing...how some people do not understand the meaning of context. It is akin to cherry picking the bible to suit individual wants and morals.

Here’s the full context of what he said:

"We’ve already made a trillion dollars’ worth of cuts. We can make some more cuts in programs that don’t work, and make government work more efficiently…We can make another trillion or trillion-two, and what we then do is ask for the wealthy to pay a little bit more …

There are a lot of wealthy, successful Americans who agree with me, because they want to give something back. They know they didn’t -look, if you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something – there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there.

If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet.

The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the GI Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for president – because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together.”

I understand why they do this...I just find it dishonest and petty.
 
zstep18 said:
Imagine that, a well spoken and intelligent person not wording something in the best way. Oh the horror.
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I agree, it's probably why he rarely goes off script. Too revealing.
 
zstep18 said:
So, then you're acknowledging that he didn't word it in the best way then?
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I can't imagine anyone thinking it was well worded. Not being spoken well doesn't change the sentiment, though.
 
Thunder said:
so you acknowledge that the silly claim that "Obama says business-owners didn't create their businesses", is a stupid lie?
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I don't. Admit it because it happens to all of us: Obama was swept away by his own rhetoric and went too far. His words were, "If you’ve got a business. you didn’t build that. “Somebody else made that happen.”

These are his words--not a lie and not a silly claim. I understand the context argument, but mind-reading. I'm a word-reader and listener. Whatever the President's intent, he said what he said. Repeating what he said isn't a lie or silly claim...nor is believing that he unintentionally revealed far more about his own real views than he intended to.
 
mac said:
I can't imagine anyone thinking it was well worded. Not being spoken well doesn't change the sentiment, though.
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Miswording something can sure change it's meaning. I think if you want the honest message he's trying to get across, you should read where he starts with. "The point is this". That seems to be a good indicator of the overall message.
 
zstep18 said:
Miswording something can sure change it's meaning. I think if you want the honest message he's trying to get across, you should read where he starts with. "The point is this". That seems to be a good indicator of the overall message.
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and ignore the parts you wish he hadn't said?

Let me ask you this: is Govt equally responsible for the failure of businesses? Further, what in the President's past makes him understand what make's businesses succeed or fail? The first executive spot he's ever help was President....
 
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mac said:
and ignore the parts you wish he hadn't said?
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No, that's not a good idea. But, it's also not a good idea to take 4 words from a speech, and try to say what he meant by it.
 
zstep18 said:
No, that's not a good idea. But, it's also not a good idea to take 4 words from a speech, and try to say what he meant by it.
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That's not what I'm doing.

"If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."

You can count them, if you want to. I may be simple, but I don't think that's 4.
 
mac said:
That's not what I'm doing.

"If you’ve got a business -- you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen."

You can count them, if you want to. I may be simple, but I don't think that's 4.
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I was going with the "you didn't build that". But, you're stepping away from my point.
 


Look at the disdain in his words when he says, "You didn't build that!"
 
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