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Thread: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    No, it wouldn't and it never has. But do feel free to try and prove it rather than repeating your fallacy ad nauseum. That would be a nice change for you.
    The drug trade is billions per year. They not only get no protection from the government, the government is trying to kill it. There are few more sophisticated businesses, either.
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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    Haymarket -tell us what evidence has ever backed up your claims that the rich don't pay their fair share or that its right for income to be subjected to a heavily progressive income tax and the current schedule for investment income is unfair to the public
    Turtle - please do NOT misrepresent my positions and then ask me to defend your perverted frankenstien monster version of what you think they are. That is NOT going to happen and is intellectually dishonest in the extreme.

    I have often and repeatedly stated that the term FAIR SHARE is ridiculous and should be removed from the discussion because nobody will ever agree on its meaning.

    As such you are asking me to prove a position that is not mine. You are talking to the wrong person.

    I cannot defend the use of a heavily progressive income tax because we currently do not have one. So again, you are talking to the wrong person.

    Lots of people including myself have quoted many experts about taxing investment income at higher rates - do you want the opinion of Ronald Reagan again? I have heard he merits some respect on the far right so you may be interested in what he did about taxing capital gains if you missed it the first three score times.

    The last major overhaul of the tax code, signed by President Ronald Reagan in 1986, set tax rates on capital gains at the same level as the rates on ordinary income like salaries and wages . . .
    Last edited by haymarket; 07-22-12 at 10:49 AM.
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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    The drug trade is billions per year. They not only get no protection from the government, the government is trying to kill it. There are few more sophisticated businesses, either.
    The drug trade should not be that successful.

    Law enforcement needs to adopt the techniques that worked so well during prohibition.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    The drug trade is billions per year. They not only get no protection from the government, the government is trying to kill it. There are few more sophisticated businesses, either.
    Really?!?!?!?! I was under the impression the drug trade spends lots of money every year purchasing protection from people in the government.
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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    The drug trade should not be that successful.

    Law enforcement needs to adopt the techniques that worked so well during prohibition.
    I'm assuming this is meant to be funny.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Really?!?!?!?! I was under the impression the drug trade spends lots of money every year purchasing protection from people in the government.
    Not unlike legal businesses.


    See the issue?
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by KevinKohler View Post
    Not unlike legal businesses.


    See the issue?
    Not exactly. Could you explain it clearly?
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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by haymarket View Post
    Not exactly. Could you explain it clearly?
    It is the relationship that our government has with ALL trade in this country, that ALLOWS for things like what you mentioned...drug dealers paying off government in order to stay in business, etc.

    To put that into the context of the argument being made...Harshaw stated that the drug trade is BOOMING, in SPITE of uncle sam trying to squash it out with his considerable sized boot. This is, in essence, claiming that, ultimately, despite it's size, money, and power, our government doesn't really have much control, when it comes to things people actually, really WANT. And yet, it inserts itself into the equation ANYWAY. Why?

    And then your post, about drug dealers paying lots of money to that self same government, in order to stay IN business...the implication being, I guess...that if they didn't, they would be squashed by the aforementioned boot heel. Which they would not be. Paying off government employees is simply the cheapest/easiest way. Remove that as an option, and drug dealers will simply use other means. Because they have a product that people actually, really want. MY comment, however, was not aimed at this, but more focused on the concept that, by allowing our government to hold the purse strings, so to speak, we have opened up a can of corrupt worms. Make no mistake, "legit" businesses spend FAR more, every year, for government protection, than drug dealers do.
    Quote Originally Posted by calamity View Post
    Reports indicate that everyone knew he was hauling a bunch of guns up there. But, since you brought it up, there's something which should be illegal: guns that breakdown.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Thank you for the detailed explanation. I do appreciate it.

    I think I would differ as far as the whole boot of government suggestion. At best its a half-assed effort and it worst its fully assed to quote the line from FAST TIMES AT RIDGEMONT HIGH. And because its half-assed, the get corruption and bribery and lots of looking the other way.

    I agree that our government does not have that much control but only because we seem to want it that one. In 1940's China, it is estimated that as many as one in every five adult men were users of opium and addicts. When Mao took over he believed that China could never advance economically with that sort of drag on the population. The Chinese government declared true WAR on opium and within five to seven years it was pretty much not existent as a used drug in China.

    We have never had a war on drugs here so who can say if government could make it work or not?

    We have the system we will tolerate. Government only facilitates that for us.
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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    In order to come to the table they have to believe you are doing things in good faith. They doubt this about you.

    As for me, I would almost never come to the table with people like yourself as there is simply no starting point to be had.
    You're the one who won't negotiate or compromise. That's exactly my point about the GOP. There is no working with them because their stated goal is to block everything Obama does unless it fits in with their agenda. That's not a reflection on Obama ... that's a rfelection on the GOP and their dereliction of duty.

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