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Thread: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Serving as president is not serving in the military. I hope I do not actually have to explain why.
    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    That's idiotic. The office of the President specifically is NOT part of the military; the whole point is that he's a civilian commander.

    Clinton tried to claim he was "active duty military" to keep some medical records secret; didn't work for him. Why? He wasn't in the military.
    The US military is a volunteer civilian army. The military is comprised of paid civilian volunteers and they don't give up their citizenship to join the military. The military volunteers are obligated to obey the same laws that civilians are and they have almost all the same constitutional rights and protections as civilians. Ending the "don't ask, don't tell policy" helped to re-establish one of those rights.

    GI RIGHTS - Legal Demonstration - What Rights Do You Have



    Like all presidents as commanders in chief of the military, Clinton qualified as Active Duty Military....

    Active Duty Military

    "Full-time service, as in Julian is 81, but he still comes to the office every day and is very much on active duty . This term comes from the military, where it stands in opposition to reserve , which refers to troops still in the military but not actively engaged. It is occasionally transferred to civilian matters as well. [First half of 1800s]
    Active duty | Define Active duty at Dictionary.com

    10 USC 101 - Definitions | LII / Legal Information Institute

    In the case of Clinton he tried to stave a sexual harrassment lawsuit by claiming he was active duty military. But like almost all military personel even he was not immune from civil lawsuits.

    Clinton Drops Active-Duty Lawsuit Protection Claim - Los Angeles Times

    I can't find any evidence that Clinton used active duty military to avoid showing his medical records, so maybe you can provide it, Henrin.
    Last edited by Moot; 07-21-12 at 10:07 PM.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    That is a tall order considering how much others that came before him did like FDR.

    1.He tried to take over healthcare, and instead put in a system that forces people to take part in the a market while others are forced under programs they may not desire to be on. By all accounts that is still socialist by design and by even hinting at the former showed who he was.
    Once again, I do not oppose all programs which are socialist in nature, and I think that healthcare is the perfect field for the government to involve itself in as it is an essential need that impacts all Americans and has tremendous implications for the entire economy. But you seem to be forgetting that people will be forced to buy insurance from a PRIVATE company. You know, just like anyone who drives has to buy car insurance from a private company. I don't care if you insist on calling it purely "socialism" or not, the fact is, it will work better than the market-regulated insurance fiasco that we're currently stuck with. This should make the free-market types quite happy: No longer can people freeload for free healthcare because they decided to buy new rims for their car than insurance for their family, and the private sector will probably get a bit of a boost as well.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    2. He bailed out industry, gave government shares, and switched up the hierarchy of ownership in those companies. Again, that is socialist.
    Once again, I agree with you on this point. Not a bad decision in retrospect, but a bad precedent and probably not something we should do in the future.
    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    3. He assisted people from losing their homes when they otherwise would of done so. Again, that is socialist.
    This is more complicated than at first glance and, as someone who owns a home and has been responsible in my mortgage payments, it is frustrating to see some of these yahoos who purchased homes they shouldn't. But you also have to remember that many of these people were victims of predatory and deceptive lending practices(resulting from LACK of government oversight of the finance sector in this country). Also, these people weren't just handed their homes. Rather, they were allowed to refinance to a level at which they could afford to make payments. Don't forget that the free market is not just about SUPPLY and DEMAND, it also has a huge psycological element to it and I firmly believe that if the government had not stepped in to shore up the banks and the housing we would have collapsed into a complete economic deathspiral and would be in a Great Depression again. The tragedy behind all of this is that the government has yet to reform the finance industry(thanks to the conservative free-market worshipping politicians) so that this same mistake doesn't happen again. So....it'll happen again.

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    4. Grew and supported funding of private industry. ex: Wind turbines

    and the list goes on and on, but those are all bad enough in my book and yes they are all socialist.
    I believe the government should be investing hundreds of billions in alternative energy projects. So what if not all of them are profitable or successful the first time around. Our dependance on oil is absolutely destroying our economy in a million different ways(Foreign wars, pollution, economic instability etc.-I can go on for hours about this....trust me!) and the free market junkies refuse to acknowledge that this danger and all they can scream is DRILL! DRILL! DRILL! In the meantime, we need to find a real solution to this monsterous solution and the private sector has not been able to do it. So, it's time for the government to begin stepping up to the plate to invest in the development of new technologies to replace oil. I think it's a great thing for my tax-payer money to be spent on and I'd much prefer this strategy than spending hundreds of billions each year to protect our oil interests in the Middle East.

    So, Long story short: I don't believe "socialism" is always a bad word and I don't think that the Free Market can solve all of our ills. There should always be a place for the government to regulate, tax and invest in our future. As long as it is done wisely and only in limited circumstances, I am all for it. There will be room for capitalism in that system as well. Always has been, always will be.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by zeusomally View Post
    huh? WHAT should be applied liberally? I am a bit confused as to what, specifically, you are referencing.
    I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.

    so says Thomas Jefferson
    Oracle of Utah
    Truth rings hollow in empty heads.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by TurtleDude View Post
    yeah that is why obama and his toadies whine about Mitt having a swiss bank account or that he personally outsourced jobs

    Lets talk about the truth of Obama being completely inept and an failure
    okay, let's talk aboutit. Examples and evidence(facts would be nice) to back up your assertion. Thank you, TurtleDude

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    I have sworn upon the altar of God, eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.

    so says Thomas Jefferson
    UtahBill, I am afraid you have lost me. Cool quote. Great quote, actually. But outside of that I'm not sure what you are getting at.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It's Republican....
    Exactly.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    It's Republican....
    Romney is a RINO.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by johnny_rebson View Post
    Romney is a RINO.
    Close enough. The republican party made him their front man.

    AUSTAN GOOLSBEE: I think the world vests too much power, certainly in the president, probably in Washington in general for its influence on the economy, because most all of the economy has nothing to do with the government.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Thunder View Post
    they pay sales taxes & property taxes. Which build roads & bridges.
    Oh so now you are talking about local roads and state things-not the things Oblama uses to justify higher FEDERAL taxes


    most of the sales taxes paid by the bottom 30% comes from money GIVEN to them by the government which gets that money from people like ME. So in reality I am paying for their "contributions"

    NOT THEM

    the bottom 20% get three dollars from the federal government for every dollar they actually make

    the top one percent are paying an effective tax rate of about 28C on every dollar they make

    its not until you hit the top 40% that there is a net tax payment rather than a negative tax payment (meaning money back)

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by mac View Post
    So, you're big on military spending then?


    No, but then, that has nothing to do with what I said either. Are you also deflecting from what I said in order to avoid answering my question?

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