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Thread: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    All of them. Obama is the Commander in Chief of all the armed US military forces and he outranks all the Generals. He is their commander they are not his. Too bad Romney can't and never will be able to say the same, eh?
    That's idiotic. The office of the President specifically is NOT part of the military; the whole point is that he's a civilian commander.

    Clinton tried to claim he was "active duty military" to keep some medical records secret; didn't work for him. Why? He wasn't in the military.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Moot View Post
    All of them. Obama is the Commander in Chief of all the armed US military forces and he outranks all the Generals. He is their commander they are not his. Too bad Romney can't and never will be able to say the same, eh?
    That was rather witty, Moot. Touche.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Henrin View Post
    Taking over industry or interfering with resources and how they are aligned naturally does interfere with capitalism.
    You bet it does. I won't disagree with you on that point. What I believe I would disagree with you on however is :
    #1) the degree to which Obama has actually interfered with Capitalism in comparison to his predecessors. and
    #2)how important it is for government to regulate business. I contend that it is very important. In fact, essential.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by UtahBill View Post
    your sig.....it is Jefferson deriding the christian clergy of the day....
    I would not characterize it that way:

    _To Dr. Benjamin Rush_
    _Monticello, Sep. 23, 1800_


    DEAR SIR, -- I have to acknolege the receipt of your favor of
    Aug. 22, and to congratulate you on the healthiness of your city.
    Still Baltimore, Norfolk & Providence admonish us that we are not
    clear of our new scourge. When great evils happen, I am in the habit
    of looking out for what good may arise from them as consolations to
    us, and Providence has in fact so established the order of things, as
    that most evils are the means of producing some good. The yellow
    fever will discourage the growth of great cities in our nation, & I
    view great cities as pestilential to the morals, the health and the
    liberties of man. True, they nourish some of the elegant arts, but
    the useful ones can thrive elsewhere, and less perfection in the
    others, with more health, virtue & freedom, would be my choice.


    I agree with you entirely, in condemning the mania of giving
    names to objects of any kind after persons still living. Death alone
    can seal the title of any man to this honor, by putting it out of his
    power to forfeit it. There is one other mode of recording merit,
    which I have often thought might be introduced, so as to gratify the
    living by praising the dead. In giving, for instance, a commission
    of chief justice to Bushrod Washington, it should be in consideration
    of his integrity, and science in the laws, and of the services
    rendered to our country by his illustrious relation, &c. A
    commission to a descendant of Dr. Franklin, besides being in
    consideration of the proper qualifications of the person, should add
    that of the great services rendered by his illustrious ancestor, Bn
    Fr, by the advancement of science, by inventions useful to man, &c.
    I am not sure that we ought to change all our names. And during the
    regal government, sometimes, indeed, they were given through
    adulation; but often also as the reward of the merit of the times,
    sometimes for services rendered the colony. Perhaps, too, a name
    when given, should be deemed a sacred property.


    I promised you a letter on Christianity, which I have not
    forgotten. On the contrary, it is because I have reflected on it,
    that I find much more time necessary for it than I can at present
    dispose of. I have a view of the subject which ought to displease
    neither the rational Christian nor Deists, and would reconcile many
    to a character they have too hastily rejected. I do not know that it
    would reconcile the _genus irritabile vatum_ who are all in arms
    against me. Their hostility is on too interesting ground to be
    softened. The delusion into which the X. Y. Z. plot shewed it
    possible to push the people; the successful experiment made under the
    prevalence of that delusion on the clause of the constitution, which,
    while it secured the freedom of the press, covered also the freedom
    of religion, had given to the clergy a very favorite hope of
    obtaining an establishment of a particular form of Christianity thro'
    the U. S.; and as every sect believes its own form the true one,
    every one perhaps hoped for his own, but especially the Episcopalians
    & Congregationalists. The returning good sense of our country
    threatens abortion to their hopes, & they believe that any portion of
    power confided to me, will be exerted in opposition to their schemes.
    And they believe rightly; for I have sworn upon the altar of god,
    eternal hostility against every form of tyranny over the mind of man.
    But this is all they have to fear from me: & enough too in their
    opinion, & this is the cause of their printing lying pamphlets
    against me, forging conversations for me with Mazzei, Bishop Madison,
    &c., which are absolute falsehoods without a circumstance of truth to
    rest on; falsehoods, too, of which I acquit Mazzei & Bishop Madison,
    for they are men of truth.


    But enough of this: it is more than I have before committed to
    paper on the subject of all the lies that has been preached and
    printed against me. I have not seen the work of Sonnoni which you
    mention, but I have seen another work on Africa, (Parke's,) which I
    fear will throw cold water on the hopes of the friends of freedom.
    You will hear an account of an attempt at insurrection in this state.
    I am looking with anxiety to see what will be it's effect on our
    state. We are truly to be pitied. I fear we have little chance to
    see you at the Federal city or in Virginia, and as little at
    Philadelphia. It would be a great treat to receive you here. But
    nothing but sickness could effect that; so I do not wish it. For I
    wish you health and happiness, and think of you with affection.
    Adieu.
    Though I can see how one could read it as such.

    but it should be applied liberally to all propagandists, marketers, advertisers, political hacks, or anybody who attempts to lead the less educated astray.
    Sad part is, thenumber of less educated among us is increasing exponentially...no way to keep up when they would rather watch "reality" TV...or pro sports....or only one news channel, if that...
    I apply it to anyone who seeks to force another to comport to their own viewpoint. This is why I'm a libertarian.
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by ttwtt78640 View Post
    I doubt even the demorats want that, you do realize that is a 50% increase in the bottom bracket rate; from 10% to 15%.
    I realize it. If I had my way I would increase the taxes of every American who earns dollar one by five points across the board.
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    There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs.... John Rogers

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    [QUOTE=Henrin;1060712813]They can't. One naturally destories the other and the principles it lays out. Regardless, that is not what you said before.

    So just a second here, Henrin. Before I expand with more detail on my "socialist" beliefs, let me ask you what type of government you favor so that I may have some inkling of where you are coming from? Are you suggesting a pure market system for our schools, roads, regulatory bodies, military, social programs? Or are you just suggesting it for some of them while doing away completely with others. If you think any government that has elements of socialism in it is bad for our society, please do explain to me your SUPERIOR system and how it work.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post

    You have a problem with your president.
    Yes, but I also have a problem with the person running against him.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Harshaw View Post
    I would not characterize it that way:



    Though I can see how one could read it as such.



    I apply it to anyone who seeks to force another to comport to their own viewpoint. This is why I'm a libertarian.
    So what, then, do you believe of Paul's stance on abortion. Sounds like he trying to force women to comport to his own viewpoint....
    And he thinks it is okay for local school boards to force non-believers to sit through prayer in public schools
    I could go on. Maybe you don't support Paul, but he does appear to be the current flagbearer of the Libertarian movement and I think it more than fair to say that he has no problem with "forcing others to comport to his viewpoint". Kind of a disconnect.---and allow me to rephrase that: He is ONE of the leaders of the Libertarian movement.
    Last edited by zeusomally; 07-21-12 at 08:39 PM.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by zeusomally View Post
    I haven't read much on the issue, but what I have read indicates that user fees are actually funding considerably less than 70-75% of our highway bills and that they are actually on the decrease....hmmm.
    But as to the bigger issue, it's still a tax, no matter how you cut it. The only difference is, I contend, that user fee taxes can actually harm the economy because people will actually become less likely to use our highways if they know that everytime they motor down the highway it will cost them. User fees, because of their immediacy, impact consumer behavior in ways that income taxes don't. I guess the question would be: Does the negative impact that user fees has on the economy as a result of altered consumer behavior(more likely to stay home instead of travelling and stimulating the economy) outweigh the loss of inefficiancy we endure as the result of government bureaucracy that manages our roads?
    That 75% figure is the average of all monies (municipal, county, state, and federal). 93.5% of federal interstate revenue comes from that 18.4 cents you pay on every gallon of gas. You'd have to raise income taxes by allot to pay for our highways...I'm talking like 100%.

    But, then again, no matter how the monies are raised, someone has to manage and distribute them to the private contractors that build the roads. I hope you're not suggesting that we allow a profit-driven private company manage these contracts that are given out to other private companies?!! Sounds like you would just replace one set of problems, government inefficiency, with another, private sector corruption. Take your pick.
    Come to think of it...you're right. No private organization could handle the coordination between the states, the massive technical challenge of setting standards for construction, engineering, and safety needed to build the enormous highway, bridge, and infrastructure system we have in the U.S. Such an organization...because it's private...would be ripe with greed and corruption. Anarchy would certainly follow...death and destruction on the highways, Armageddon would ensue. Allowing a private firm to make those decisions will surely break the 7th seal of the apocalypse.

    Wait..you ever heard of AASHTO?

    They do all those things you're worried about, and they do it FOR the feds. They, of course, are non-governmental.
    Last edited by Romulus; 07-21-12 at 08:34 PM.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by zeusomally View Post
    You bet it does. I won't disagree with you on that point. What I believe I would disagree with you on however is :
    #1) the degree to which Obama has actually interfered with Capitalism in comparison to his predecessors.
    That is a tall order considering how much others that came before him did like FDR.

    1.He tried to take over healthcare, and instead put in a system that forces people to take part in the a market while others are forced under programs they may not desire to be on. By all accounts that is still socialist by design and by even hinting at the former showed who he was.

    2. He bailed out industry, gave government shares, and switched up the hierarchy of ownership in those companies. Again, that is socialist.

    3. He assisted people from losing their homes when they otherwise would of done so. Again, that is socialist.

    4. Grew and supported funding of private industry. ex: Wind turbines

    and the list goes on and on, but those are all bad enough in my book and yes they are all socialist.

    and
    #2)how important it is for government to regulate business. I contend that it is very important. In fact, essential.
    Right violations are one thing, but beyond that I disagree.
    Last edited by Henrin; 07-21-12 at 09:11 PM.

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