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Thread: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by zstep18 View Post
    In many ways Adam Smith would be considered a socialist today (or at least by the American definition of socialism).
    If you say so. That topic would be extraneous to my point, which is that Obama wants more government intervention into the economy and I want less. That's what his speech was about and what this thread is about.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by tecoyah View Post
    First off...that was a rather pathetic dodge, or a very poorly veiled tail between the legs bow out.

    You stated this " He's a Keynesian with socialist tendencies whose epistemology has never been challenged within his academic bubble. "

    I replied with this: " It truly is astounding that people still cling to such feeble and disproven comments to debase the President. Even more amazing would be the self imposed projected ignorance these comments paint. One can assume either pure ignorance, or something far worse."

    So you completely change subjects, and fall back to a well rehearsed (and unprovable)...But Obama Hasn't Fixed Everything, and we would all be better off IF he had done xxxx.

    Just admit you made a poor post, and we can debate your next one.
    I know socialists tend to be sensitive to being called socialists so I tried to be generous and call Obama primarily a Keynesian. You can repackage his policies in your favorite euphemisms if choose. How about I say, 'Obama is for deficit spending in attempt to stimulate the economy during a recession, and for more government control or ownership over market production'.

    There, I hope that sounds better.

    They are still failed policies from stale dis-proven ideologies.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    when he said "you did not build that" , what was to follow that comment? logically the next step would be: since you did not build it, you are not entitled to the profits and must share them with the rest of us. Obama is a marxist redistributionist. Its quite obvious in his demonization of the rich and successful.
    I don't believe that is what he was saying at all. First of all, I am sure that by now you realize that when he said "You did not build that" that he was referring to ROADS and BRIDGES, and not the business himself.
    As far a Obama being a Marxist, there is nothing in his speech(or any other speech that he has made) that suggests that we should not maintain a strong capitalist/market system in this country. In a Marxist system there is no room for capitalism, and Obama has always been clear that he is a big proponent of capitalism.
    I would agree with you, however, if you suggested that his comments hinted at the value and power of social collectivism. Certainly Obama believes, more so than many of the conservative business interests in this country, that government can and should provide a climate(infrastructure, schools, regulatory agencies, military, judicial system etc.) which will ultimately lay down soils upon which individual initiative(he actually mentions that very word in this speech) can have fertile ground in which to be sprout into successful businesses.
    It's really not that radical of a concept: There are things that the free market is best left to, and things that the government is best left to and they both need one another to be successful. And, for the reasons that collective government has aided them in this regard, business leaders have a moral obligation to operate in the best interests of the society at large-not merely their own short-term economic interests. That's not Marxism, that's just common sense.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Romulus View Post
    I know socialists tend to be sensitive to being called socialists so I tried to be generous and call Obama primarily a Keynesian. You can repackage his policies in your favorite euphemisms if choose. How about I say, 'Obama is for deficit spending in attempt to stimulate the economy during a recession, and for more government control or ownership over market production'.

    There, I hope that sounds better.

    They are still failed policies from stale dis-proven ideologies.
    I am not sensitive being called a "socialist". What I am sensitive to is when conservatives incorrectly define socialism and, more significantly, fail to recognize that it is possible to be a socialist and a capitalist at the same time. In other words, the two political philosophies are not necessarily exclusive to one another. Only the most foolish among us would suggest that any effective("effective" as in just and true to human dignity and rights) government cannot be left merely to the free market. The debate most reasonable people are actually having today is not whether we need elements of both systems, but where the balance lies between the two. Very reasonable people can have disagreements on this matter.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by kamikaze483 View Post
    At a campaign stop in Roanoke, VA, Obama takes a shot at entreprenuers and small business owners, suggesting that they are not responsible for the success of their own businesses.

    IMO, blatant comments such as these show the disrespect that Obama has for ingenuity, resourcefulness, and hard work. I do not think comments such as these will benefit him among independent and other swing voters.

    Also, I find it interesting that no other major news outlet other than Fox News picked up this story. Interesting, but not surprising.

    Quoting Obama,




    Obama to business owners: 'You didn't build that' | Fox News
    Because Fox took it out of context with intentional deceit ... he was saying the surrounding infrastructure supported small business and it does. Fact. We are all interconnected to each other ... our infrastructure and our businesses. My business is heavily relaint off a strong infrastructure and a mixed economy. obama is center right on business and believes in a mixed economy for a strong America.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by zeusomally View Post
    I love how you sweepingly list some of the most complicated, long-standing and entrenched issues in the world today and then assume that Obama can just wag around a little leadership and the problems will go away. I'm afraid these issues are not as easily solved as you are implying.
    Also-please tell me, exactly, why you believe Obama's remarks to be Marxist? I would like some actual quotes from the speech, please, not just your word for it!
    Obama doesn't have the intellectual fortitude to understand Marx, I was referencing his buddy Bill Ayers. No one expects Obama to solve all the issues mentioned, I just resent the fact I have to thank God for Clinton and Holbrooke.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by zeusomally View Post
    What I am sensitive to is when conservatives incorrectly define socialism and, more significantly, fail to recognize that it is possible to be a socialist and a capitalist at the same time.
    Wait . . . you're "sensitive" to people mis-defining "socialism," and you believe the bolded part?
    “Offing those rich pigs with their own forks and knives, and then eating a meal in the same room, far out! The Weathermen dig Charles Manson.”-- Bernadine Dohrn

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by zeusomally View Post
    I am not sensitive being called a "socialist". What I am sensitive to is when conservatives incorrectly define socialism and, more significantly, fail to recognize that it is possible to be a socialist and a capitalist at the same time. In other words, the two political philosophies are not necessarily exclusive to one another. Only the most foolish among us would suggest that any effective("effective" as in just and true to human dignity and rights) government cannot be left merely to the free market. The debate most reasonable people are actually having today is not whether we need elements of both systems, but where the balance lies between the two. Very reasonable people can have disagreements on this matter.
    I agree that we disagree. No what department to you want to abolish?

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Bobcat View Post
    when he said "you did not build that" , what was to follow that comment? logically the next step would be: since you did not build it, you are not entitled to the profits and must share them with the rest of us. Obama is a marxist redistributionist. Its quite obvious in his demonization of the rich and successful.
    Interesting leap...unfortunately, personal interpretation and extrapolation from a somewhat warped mind do not equate to a reality. Your understanding of "Logic" may be a bit compromised with inherent bias and pre-conceived partisanship.

    You seem irrelevant to this debate.

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    Re: Obama to business owners: "You didn't build that." [W:417]

    Quote Originally Posted by Romulus View Post
    Obama doesn't have the intellectual fortitude to understand Marx, I was referencing his buddy Bill Ayers. No one expects Obama to solve all the issues mentioned, I just resent the fact I have to thank God for Clinton and Holbrooke.
    Wow...we had no Idea you know the president, let alone well enough to evaluate his "Intellectual Fortitude", (did the formation of those words hurt your brain?). Tell me, as I have wondered for awhile....does he like hotwings?

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